File Sharers Can No Longer Hide! (FirstSource monitors)

[Blair]

It

[Unit1Evangelion]

eh. i could careless. how are they goin to arrest and charge 50+ milllion file sharers? its a scare.

[snackeater]

I agree with what they are doing. Its time to end the stealing of files on the net.

[AnimeWerewolf]

1. second the i don't care post can't sue everybody more scare tactics ...
2. someone will come up with a way to disable this program ...
3. the program is vulnerable to virus and hack attack ...
4. just name a torrent by numbers say like
666 and in a forum you tell the folks
what it is before they download !
it's simple and easy to defeat a
program like this so no need
to worry much about it ...

[Blair]

You all miss the point. It

[oink37]

It's easier to target the tracker if it's located in a country where you can attack for IP infringement. Therefore, if HF is in the USA, they'll target the tracker, probably, because it's more cost-efficient.


(It could be used against piratebay tracker, since the law there doesn't recognize the responsability of a tracker for sharing.But that's another story)

[Cyrano]

The problem still remains that most ISPs do not allow any of the information about their users (unless you're AOL) to be given to 3rd party without initial consent, or a federal subpoena. Neither are easy to get.

Edit: Oh yes, I forgot to add that whole thing about evidinciary support. You need it in order to arrest somebody. Did I mention that it's almost impossible to prove theft of information that has no solid form?

[Lisa Hayes]

you know what...
we could use their engine to search for torrents instead...

[juan899]

...sounds like a good idea

[dexterng]

I am scared...........



WTF STILL WILL DOWNLOAD F U C K IT

[Xanth]

you know what...
we could use their engine to search for torrents instead...

Genius... pure genius...

[Mikeido]

Ugh, not another of these threads...well if you want my thoughts go check last weeks "zomg they're coming for us now" thread :rolleyes:

Though I should be grateful, I was waiting for the next thread like this to pop up so I could use that link oink gave us that I'd saved for such an occasion. [So yes] (http://www.wftv.com/news/4164623/detail.html?treets=orlc&tml=orlc_strange&ts=T&tmi=orlc_strange_1_10000202042005) they're coming for you, and don't think the fact that you're dead and never had a computer to begin with's going to stop them :p

[oink37]

Too bad for Lisa's search engine :D

[ChibiFirli]

Couldn't we just make something to flood them with fake info :D? Just to annoy them :p.

[TaronWarrior]

Probably just a scare, unless they arrest some of the major distributors. The only real big thing this is doing for the RIAA, MPAA, etc is giving them evidence in court.

[Amberion]

I don't think this system will work that good. Well atleast not on the edonkey system.

Everyone who have used edonkey sometime should know that 1 file on that system might have 20 diffirent names. So it would be kind of easy just to play inosent and say that the file I download was named "private homevideo.avi" or something.

I have downloaded child porn on edonkey while thinking it was a music video, deleted it just after I noticed what it was though. But who knows, the music/video industry is pumping billions of cash into the hands of politicans. So they will probebly follow the industry like a dog on a leach.

[ChronoReverse]

Hrm, so it is going to scan each and every single bittorrent file that exists? Thats a lot... because if they didn't, what's to keep people from just renaming the torrents?

[S&T Kawaii Love]

Well I guess we have to wait untill the first case gets out. Then we know how serious this new FS monitors are. I really hope it would not affect HongFire.

[animefan522]

No telling how sites like narutofan.com are gonna react to it. The MPAA and RCIA need to realise that while we may get a song file or movie or whatever. We have limited access to it in an initial sense for most of the stuff. Like movies, unless we buy the DVDs, we won't have access to deleted scenes or new trailers, etc. The only reason I even found out about upcoming Naruto games was via fansub sites. Also, these advertisement companies (that help offset the cost of the servers for torrent sites) might not be happy cause part of their advertising is going down the drain thanks to this 'legislation.'

[dexterng]

Lets just wait and see. No point worrying about armengadom if all are to fall. At least, they will feel the pitch. Remember napster. There is a tremedous drop in music CD purchasement as people no longer have any ideas which artists are good. The radio only broadcast bits and pieces of new songs. Let see who has the last laugh.

[dragonbreath]

baah unlikly a company like this will make any dent on the file sharing scene, even if it did as ChronoReverse said ppl will simply rename torrents, or the file sharers could end up going into closed membership only groups with no public listings.

Also Hongfire is a anime related site so i dont think its on everyones target list yet, even if it is they have bigger fish to fry music, apps and movies.

I may been into anime a while but i am new to the internet anime scene,the way i understand it anime owes so much to the net for its success, so it better be careful messing with the scene it could backfire on them bigtime.

[kylixjazz]

Well... you all say "**** it".
But they'll sue the **** out of a couple of people, and after that you'll see people will stop downloading a lot.
It's like with those kazaa music cases a while ago... most people I know stopped downloading for a moment then, because they were scared to get sued too.

If it were for "normal" claims (like they sue you for 300) theyd continue downloading... but no1 wants to take the risk (even if its on in a million) to get a 55 million dollar claim.
And they are able to back it up now, with those trackers.
Well, time to finally get some of those private trackers and anonimizer-proggies to work properly.

[Maria Renard]

eh. i could careless. how are they goin to arrest and charge 50+ milllion file sharers? its a scare.*shrugs*

I

[Basara]

When will the close down of using webbrowers come?

Cause what are you doing? You are downloading a hell of copyrighted materials when you even start up your webbrowser. How are they going to keep an eye on that?

Sounds stupid the first time we heard it, hasn

[zatrayis]

actually there are two news stories I know of where people have been arressted for bittorrent file sharing. One was in Hong Kong and the other I think in Finland. The entire house was arrested.

http://www.theregister.com/2004/12/14/finnish_police_raid_bittorrent_site/

There is one of the stories about it.

[gjc170]

I like how that article spells out MPAA...

The Motion Picture Ass. of AmericaHow 'bout instead going after every downloader and his grandma,
they [MPAA] do something about the real-world Asian-Pacific piracy industy.
They've got what, 1.5 billion+ people screwing them out of hundreds of millions
of dollars and venture opportunities and what do they do?
Turn to the rest of the world and try to prosecute copyright
infringement that probably doesn't even take a physical form.

[Cyrano]

Run awayyy Run awayy!!! They've got lawyers!

I wipe my nose at you, silly sons-of-a-window-dresser!

[hkey]

omgwtfbbq

stupid sh!ts. it's called IRC to go back to ... it's only been around HOW long?!

Pfft. If BT and eDonkey get shoddy, another new P2P medium will come around (don't EVEN say eXeem... that thing is HORRIBLE) or then more people will become IRC savvy and then pour in to IRC channels where people can fserv etc.

Then another what if: If the turn goes to IRC? huh? Whatcha gonna do? Rape those IRC indexers for copyright stuff, and scour the channels? Good luck, most admins of warez etc who START THE FILES know enough to be anon and thru proxies on their own channel...

And then if they sue people who SERVE the files... well, now that's rediculous. I don't know what the F modern governments are gonna do... crap, I'm moving to Canada now :)

[hkey]

NEW REVELATION:

If the MPAA or RIAA even dare request from my crappy ISP (really small ISP) about me, I'll seriously flipshit.

I just spent half a grand on anime this past month and a half. And that's just starting MY PHYSICAL COLLECTION. I plan to hopefully buy all the anime that I really do _love_ (definitely not buying Naruto or Bleach anime... so many eps, so little cash, and nor any anime that I like so~so) and the OSTs.

I buy from iTunes... WHAT MORE DO YOU FREAKING RICH B!TCHY COPYRIGHT HUNGRY COMPANIES WANT?!? TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD?

....crap. I just realized it. They want to take over the world xD Matrix version 2.0.... rofl... Sorry for the caps etc - need to vent this RIAA/MPAA anger somewhere ;)

[ressurrector]

[QUOTE=Basara]I understand why anime and all movie/music companies are frightend since they are losing alot of money. But for me who lives in sweden and don

[Lisa Hayes]

i still say use the engine to search for torrents ~

the purpose of its design suits it well.
using it to track for the sake of **AA only instigates degradation ~
ok. i stop now.

[maohayato]

i still say use the engine to search for torrents ~

the purpose of its design suits it well.
using it to track for the sake of **AA only instigates degradation ~
ok. i stop now.

I agree. if it uses a search engine, why not use it for ourselves to track down hard to find torrents?

[Unit1Evangelion]

just do what was said before if anything happens. rename the files and number them "MPAA SUCKS BALLS 1" ^_^. i think they will get the hint hehe.

[kami]

All this anti pirate shit is just what i just wrote, shit. They cant do squat. Shure if you live in the u.s. where they love their freedom but also loves their big brother gouvernment that arrests them for DLing Shakiras latest album, you are screwed. But atleast here in sweden, the laws are still beeing formed, and when they are done the cops wont have time to arrest all the tracker owners and their downloaders I.E. you and me. Also, arrest people using internet for piracy? well in sweden thats 80% of the internet traffic, s

[hgatedc]

hell, they cant stop things like torrents.
Majority ALWAYS win and we are very sure majority rather download than spend @$$ money to buy.
and also note, those who make / order to make these programs are GREEDY RICH people who dont wanna lose even a cent in their market... majority i not rich. file sharing will live, unless majority becomes rich

[Atachi]

well... someone will find out which ip's are using to trace us down and will add them to peerguardian or safepeer... so don't think about them an ban their ips ^^

(the mpaa is actually faking popular ed2k-servers by using the same name but having a different ip to collect the "bad" guys... they seem to think we are yust dumb people not noticing such a thing if there are 5 servers with the same name and ips inside the TimeWarner-IP-range.. lol)

[HFJuon]

Anime sales have slowed some what in the states & most studios feel that without the P2P support the sales could decline greatly. P2P is still proving to get the word out on titles & anime in general. So I don't see a major push to shutdown anime sites.

Even ADV is starting to realize this as it's own Anime Network is being threatened by the big guys like Comcast & Sony. They are already pushing people to contact their cable companies & tell them they want Anime Network 24/7. The fear is that Comcast will continue to build it's own anime library from Asia Street, Anime Unleashed & it's own Anime Select VOD offering to where it no longer needs Anime Network. Without support from the dish companies & with Comcast being it's biggest rollout network in the states Anime Network's future could be threatened. ADV has noticed a significant sales boost since the AN started it's VOD offering.

As an individual I wouldn't worry much, but there's no question when you look at the bigger picture the screws are being tightened. Why? Because the big guys like Comcast & the RBOC's in the states are starting to buy up media companies. Do we need to look any further than Comcast attempt to buy Disney?

When the same company that connects you to the net owns the media your watching from it then indeed there is no where to hide. Dynamic IP's won't save you because that company knows the real you.

If nothing more there's always the parody clause for P2P to exploit. This is similar to the multitude of Star Wars parody fan films out there that make usage of the actual film footage from the films. The difference is they produce their own audio soundtrack which turns the film into a parody context. Lucas even acknowledged this. Lucas tried to prevent the porn & hentai industry from making their own versions of Star Wars but failed because of the parody clause. It's also why Lucas never made a cent from Spaceballs.

With the movie making technology available on pc's these days I wouldn't bet against the possibility that as the big guys tighten the screws to protect their stuff the little guys will just produce their own legal versions & demand will shift their way.

[Glorfindel]

I wonder if that will get ratified though... i'm sure it violates some Rights of Privacy and such...

[Raijin Z]

O noes, we will all have to go back to ratio FTP accounts.

[HFJuon]

I wonder if that will get ratified though... i'm sure it violates some Rights of Privacy and such...

I think there's a much bigger issue at stake though. How much is P2P being driven by broadband customers? How many P2P users would give up their broadband if they could no longer download their entertainment? What's that worth to these broadband companies & are they more powerful than the MPAA? I think they are.

Already Blockbuster is moving in a direction to challenge cable & dish entertainment. Doing away with rental periods, offering mail delivery of media tapes & DVD's, & offering a flat $15/mo fee for unlimited rentals.
I'd expect the other major video chains to follow suit. This should also
lead to netflix.com lowering their prices.

Honestly, if we could get all this entertainment from BB for $15/mo would you still shell out the $50/mo for broadband.com?

[kenrich7]

you have a good point there.........

[Unit1Evangelion]

*shrug* i have never had anything lower than broadband except when it wasn't made public yet back in 95-96? i was using 28.8 modem. fact is i wouldn't give up anything lower than broadband because online games would be laggier than they are now. i think most people who use the internet more than the average person(us nerds :p) wouldn't give it up either just cause we can't use p2p programs.

as much as it would be a good idea for the MPAA to shut down these broadband companies to stop the illegal downloads they will never be able to. especially sense fiber optics is now becoming more residential. Verizon is one of the companies grabbing onto this rite now. 3gb downloads. imagine how much the MPAA is goin to hate p2p programs.

to answer you last question HFJuon. yes i would still pay for broadband. i have gotten most of every movie out in the theater a few days before or the first 2 weeks that its out in dvd quality. not talking about screeners but the real thing. how many people would love to have the incredibles the day it comes out in theater? i have yet to see it there cause i got it the day it came out. for $50 a month i get an unlimited access to movies out in the theaters that i would have to pay $10 to see. lets do the math. say i download 2-3 new movies a week. thats 8-12 movies a month. now to see that in the theaters that would cost you $10-120 just to see it by yourself. not including popcorn nor paying for your date or buying anythign else. hmmm looks like i just saved a buttload of money on my part and i get to watch them all in the comfirtability of my own home. can invite bunch of friends over to watch it too. though i do visit the theaters when a good movie that has to be seen on a big screen ^_^.

[Glorfindel]

VIA LA REVOLUTION!!!

Sorry had to do it :p

[Canas]

http://www.katoots.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21020&hl=
HIDE PEOPLE THEY ARE ON TO US!!!

[jyoubitaki]

I dunno, FirstSource sounds a bit like a scare tactic... just my thoughts though. It seems BayTSP's tracking program will do fvuk all to kill off torrent downloads and uploading users, especially for people like us. But if individuals are scared and angry enough I'm sure there will be some sort of virus/hacking-backlash onto BayTSP servers (depending on encryption, I assume). In some way, I hope it happens, but that's just wishful thinking. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, as I do tend to be about computer-related stuff.

When it comes to P2P networks around the world and the various organisations/companies trying to shut them down, a Star Trek quote conveniently comes to mind:

"Resistance is futile."


EDIT: check out BayTSP's website (hxxp://www.baytsp.com), and take a look at their statistics. I'd personally like to see more conclusive proof for the effectiveness of their monitoring system. Have they even been around long enough to get conclusive proof? Just an open door, do come to your own conclusions.

[SamuraiAku]

[QUOTE=Basara]
I understand why anime and all movie/music companies are frightend since they are losing alot of money. But for me who lives in sweden and don

[FreedomX15]

hey a fellow canadian.....

yeah I think first source is a load of bull......I don't really makes sense If its gonna download the torrents to check if there the right file...theres like a bunch of torrents with the same name but with different filesizes and filetypes....where the hell are they gonna store all that....if there it downloads all at once......(well to me it sounded like it downloads all of them at once...)...cuz some torrents are like 9 gigs and whatever...and if you downloading 10 different version of the same thing thats 90 gigs right there..........

also what does it do when it encounters dead torrents that no one is using.....I'm assuming that no one pretty much gonna monitor the downloads 24/7....so won't it just get stuck on a dead torrent.....

but i'm glad to be living in canada...cuz since i'm underneath the age of 18...I can't be tried in court as a criminal....which is a little reassuring.........sort of...but if the mpaa convicts someone in canada...it could possible end up in a international scandal...and whatever....and I don't think they will go that far.........

[Unit1Evangelion]

they would go after your parents not you sense your underage. i doubt your parents will just ground you too :p

[FreedomX15]

yeah I guess ur right...about that.........life sure does suck sometimes.....

[ressurrector]

I think this seriously IS a scare tactic, and even if it isn't will it really affect anime?
Realistically anime is a smaller market share than movies and other entertainment types.
This is like a little dog yapping, the way to deal with it is to just ignore the damn little pest.

[AbortedWonton]

95% of the time I only download stuff that I can't get here in the States.

What would really be a scare is if the adult entertainment industry cracked down on filesharing. XD

[ressurrector]

But the internet was INVENTED to share porn!
Using P2P programs to get porn is meerely fulfilling the wishes of the internet's creators :D

[Lisa Hayes]

But the internet was INVENTED to share porn!
the internet is for porn ~ (5 days only)
http://rapidshare.de/files-en/633931/06._Various_Artists_-_The_Internet_Is_For_Porn__Eb_.mp3.html

[ShadowTemplar]

there started do something like that with music of kazaa and winMX already. they just went after the guys shared 1000's of songs and lucky for me in Canada there are loop holes in the copyright laws. it's legal to a degree, they can't touch us. Well not yet anyway.

[FreedomX15]

Hurray for canada and its loop holes..........If there were none....probably 75-95% of the kids at my school would be in serious trouble......and some teachers/substitues...too.......Like one time during my computer science class we had a sub that wanted to know how he could use bittorrent and other types of p2p sharing programs....he was telling us all about what he downloaded and stuff....and if theres a way he could be garanteed not to be caught....everyone aside from me (i was probably the only one actually doing work) started telling him about irc, bittorrent, ftp.......and stuff.....then we got into a discussion about Halo and Halo 2....then from there the disscussion went to other things.....like porn and stuff......then for the rest of the class everyone including me started playing online games....on the schools computers.......lol.....
......
I do remeber one guy in my class using ftp to dl a hole bunch of stuff onto the schools computers....then uploading it from the school to his......but I can totally recall how he did it....he explained it to me.....but very sherwdly...though.....then my exams basically made me forget it....

[Crimson64]

Well all i have to say is that i am poor if i had the money to buy all this stuff i would but i have to spend all my money things like doctors, meds and hospital bills. if they want to bust me for downloading anime which is one of the few things i truely enjoy these days and sue me ... well i guess i'll just have to stop buying my meds and give all my money to them, if i do that then i just wouldn't make it to my court date anyhow.

[ressurrector]

Feh, I'd most likely buy LESS anime if I didn't have a chance to look at it ahead of time.
Seriously, I'm not shelling out $30 for a DVD that I MIGHT like, I want to see a few eps first, I want to know if it's worth my moolah.

[Larghaz]

it's legal to a degree, they can't touch us. Well not yet anyway.
I'm from Canada too, to what degree is it legal here? I thought it was absolutely legal.

[Draco888]

Feh, I'd most likely buy LESS anime if I didn't have a chance to look at it ahead of time.
Seriously, I'm not shelling out $30 for a DVD that I MIGHT like, I want to see a few eps first, I want to know if it's worth my moolah.

Hehe, same as I do, especially since i'm still studying, i need to watch the anime to prioritize my anime-purchaches

[dnbraven]

hehe...
Must... kill... all... of... them. When my Soul Slayer becomes more powerful I shall slay ALL that is anti-BT! =)
No, really... I say WAAARRRR!!! LOK TAR OGAR!

[CyberDyne3]

well, i think that when we get the tracker back online we should have it completely privite, so that you have to login to even look at it, other then that you would need to use a ip and domain spoofer or something like peerguardian to help lower your chances of getting screwed

[kevinlmw]

i am certain that bit client can`t be terminated that easily since it will be backup by unlimited people in the whole world. when bit torrent fall, another program will be created

[Ashguy21]

Yup. No matter how hard they try, filesharing won't be stopped. People like getting freebies. Filesharing gets said freebies. And besides, even if they truly were to crack down, it would be a large waste of manpower to track down EACH and EVERY single filesharer on the web. And of the people they did track down, only a small proportion of them would be able to pay the hefty fines. In my opinion, it's still safe to share files, just as long as you're careful about it. (IE: Dynamic IP's, IP spoofers, ect)

[puKKa]

Lisa Hayes: you are so right about that ^^

I just think these (http://www.thepiratebay.com/frame.html) could be interesting.

[Laughing Man]

AnimeWerewolf's idea (#4) is already being used by some sites that share content they're not suppose to share. And what oink37 said is true. It depends on where you live. If I live in China then obviously I'm pretty much safe from any lawsuits that are thrown to me out of the country. That is unless China gets something out of it.

So to sum it up. I think it'll be the people in the US that are going have the most problems with this. Though this technology will be useless in a couple years. There are alot of people fighting for the "bad" side then the "good" (assuming the "good" is anti-piracy).

[burnside]

This might (and hopefully will) have an opposite affect on all of the "protected" industries... part of the reason people P2P is because they don't have enough money to buy every single CD/app/movie out there that they "hear" is good (or see on TV saying that it's good). People actually want to hear or experience whatever "intellectual property" it is they are purchasing, and P2P is currently the only method of doing so. True, many are freeloaders who could probably buy the stuff if they want to, but some are really less well off people who can only spend money on stuff they really want (such as myself).

Additionally, they already have other forms of making millions:
Face it, downloading a movie at home isn't the same as watching it at a movie theater, and listening to your favorite song on your MP3 player is very different from watching the band rock out live in concert. Apps make a considerable amount of money off of corporate licenses (which brings up the possibility of requiring all competitive gamers to have retail copies of games).

[Marcsensus]

hi,

dunno is sb from germany here? Since the german law is a bit diffrent... all was is ripped from dvd or so is illigal but all what u r captured ( radio , tv etc) is legal!

so tv card into da pc : switchin' to vox ( a channel : @ the moment is dna

[Firestorm8880]

hmm...i think i can dl anything not licensed yet in my country, which means like a lot...just a question though, does this program actually search for the data that makes up the torrent, or just the filename? anyway, there should be nothing to worry about, coz the moment people can't figure out what is nice, demand will fall, and bye bye intellectual property rules...coz the industries will force a change...and i don't think anyone, yes, ANYONE, can stop the chinese pirates...i really respect those guys...

[Kindred]

simply put, to stop filesharing they'd have to stop the internet... and thats not gonna happen o.O

[Christopher]

The problem with that article is that it doesn't mention one simple fact. That the only thing BayTSP's system is looking for is the actual name of the copyrighted work. You could rename Star Wars or something to Jackoff.exe, and then post it on another board saying "PSST. Change the extension on this and you'll get the latest SW movie."
There is NO way to stop piracy. I don't support it and I do not share things that are copyrighted in the United States, but I am also a realist and see that if the studios and RIAA/MPAA don't change their business models and offer movies and music online for download to keep forever, they are going to go out of business sooner or later.

[Kolyce]

I agree with what they are doing. Its time to end the stealing of files on the net.
WTF d00d you suxz0r!!1! :mad: :mad:


you know what...
we could use their engine to search for torrents instead...
that's our Lisa- the smartest woman on the net. Great idea! :D

[Serfius]

MYSTERY GUY B:OMG! Run! HIDE! THEY'RE ON TO US MAN!!! I knew this would happen!!! What are we gonna do?!? what are we gonna dooooo!!!!
MYSTERY GUY A:*SLAP* get a hold of yourself man! it's only psychological warfare from the enemy! Besides we've already dispatched the clean up team to deal with the guy who claims to have found a solution to stop piracy.
MYSTERY GUY B:T-then our empire is safe sir?
MYSTERY GUY A: It is safe...as long as there is human inspiration to create...it will be safe.
MYSTERY GUY B: Wow, I feel alot safer *sigh*, wanna play Melty Blood Final Tuned? I just downloaded it.
MYSTERY GUY A: You're on!

[Marcsensus]

in the end it will be just propaganda, since the "very normal user without any knowleadge" would be shocked by hearing that story ----> stop filesharing

we -----> continue , since we r intelligent enough to cheat 'em LOL

and yeah, stoppin' filesharing would be the real end of da internet.... especially for the provider...the prices would falling down and the enterprise goes bankruptcy :(

sry 4 bad engl. :) it is early in the morning and i didnt sleep that well XD