How Do You All Study Kanji?

[Hobo13]

Been taking Japanese for almost 2 years now...and kanji still owns my ass every time. I'm curious as to how everyone else studies kanji. I myself usually repeatedly write down compound words, as opposed to singular kanji. I write the furigana on top. Generally I have a page with the meanings of the individual kanji as well. My teacher suggested using flashcards...but I don't see that as helping much for actually writing them out, just recognition.

So what do YOU do?

[poncho]

I don't really write them at all. If you break them down into their component elements (not necessarily radicals), then they're fairly easy to memorize. Usually I can memorize one in about five minutes, if the elements are memorable enough. I know around 1600 of them now, I guess. :)

The crucial thing to remember is that for the purposes of memorizing kanji, you don't have to stick to what the radicals and such REALLY mean (as long as you remember that, as well). I assign completely arbitrary meanings to simple elements, and that's extremely helpful. For example, 糸 inside a larger kanji means 'spider-man' (get it?). And it's always very easy to come up with a story or something to relate that with the other elements in the kanji and the whole thing's meaning.

[Kurenai Yakedo]

I know this seem's kinda of sad, but I learn most of mine by playing RAW Japanese PS2 games...... Trial and error I suppose. It's like being forced to learn a new language in a forigein country, in order to survive (or progress) you tend to pick things up pretty quick and it becomes reflex that way, I guess the older you get the harder it is to memorize thing's like languages and letter's....but for me this works. Oh.... and sorry if this didn't awnser your question the way it was intended ^_^

[maiyahi]

There are 2 things that deal with kanji, recognition and writing. I can recognize and read about 300-500 kanji, and can guess the meaning of some others based off their stems and sentance context, but I can only write maybe 200 kanji perfectly. The only way to learn to write a kanji is really to SEE it very often, written reinforcement helps, but after a few days, you totally forget

[poncho]

The only way to learn to write a kanji is really to SEE it very often, written reinforcement helps, but after a few days, you totally forget
Not if you do it my way! I sometimes forget the exact meaning of a kanji when I try to read it, but I've virtually never forgotten how to write one when given the meaning, if I studied it properly.

[maiyahi]

Kanji is really simple, and there are differant ways, but the more you see it the better. and as poncho said, if you know the meaning you can read it or write it, but you don't always have that luxury. You can even see the kanji and know what it means, but not know the word for it. The best way to memerize them is to take like 7-14 kanji a week and just do one or two a day and write it alot in free time or trace it on your palm with your finger or something. Try reading lots of things that have furigana in it (the kanji with kana above it) and it will help also

[poncho]

The very important thing to do is to develop a good system for categorizing and organizing kanji. Only a very, very few kanji can be memorized as pictographs (maybe ten or twenty). The rest are total nonsense, and you have to be able to recognize the patterns in them or else you'll forget them instantly. At no point should you be trying to memorize the way a kanji looks, because that's the first step to completely failing to reproduce it later. You need to memorize the components and the way they're arranged. So if you have a complex kanji, don't even try to memorize it until you've learned everything that it's made of and assigned interesting meanings to each part. Then it's best to make up an absurd story or scene to link the components and meanings together. And it's good to learn all the kanji that have similar components all at once, even if some of them aren't the most commonly used ones. It really helps.

I can assure you that this method works best. I've been learning Japanese for 2.5 years, and as I said, I remember about 1600 kanji, with good recollection. Trust me on this one!

[RogerDucky]

I can assure you that this method works best. I've been learning Japanese for 2.5 years, and as I said, I remember about 1600 kanji, with good recollection. Trust me on this one!

Doesn't your method basically boil down to: Remember how to write the character, and you'd recognize it pretty easily?

That's definitely the best way, yes. That's how they teach it in schools, in fact. :)

[Little]

The best way, since you already have knowledge in Japanese, I would say, learn it from games, or manga, or whichever form that interest you...

I am Chinese, so kanji is kinda easy to me(though, some of the kanji have different meaning, or simply aren't chinese), and I learnt my Japanese from ...sadly, games/anime/manga... I can type, talk(as in normal conversation with Japanese), listen and read, just not romaji...

[poncho]

Doesn't your method basically boil down to: Remember how to write the character, and you'd recognize it pretty easily?

That's definitely the best way, yes. That's how they teach it in schools, in fact. :)
No, my way boils down to: Learn them in the right order (NOT the way they do it in school or even in Japan, because that's slow as all hell), and assign interesting, if inaccurate, meanings to subelements and come up with interesting stories with them. The key is never to rely on your visual impression of the character as many try to do, because it will never work. Nor will a loose sentence or two with some sort of strange 'saying' that links the meanings of radicals like I see in textbooks. You really need something vivid. ;)

For example, the 忄 radical is really ubiquitous, and doesn't seem to add much meaning to any of its characters. So I let it signify a particular person I know well, and associate him with all the related characters. Obviously, he has nothing whatsoever to do with the meaning of the radical, but this method works extremely well.

[maiyahi]

There are character stems which help you, and memorizing the shape does help. Kanji is easy as long as you dont rip off more than you can take on. It comes in time, dont fret over it. the best way to learn it is to read stuff with a ton of kanji in it and just re inforce it till its instinctive

[hkey]

Interesting thread. Gave some kudos to the thread participators. Very useful info indeed :)

[debil]

I think it is best to read all 3000 kanjis one by one just to remember radicals.
And then start reading as much as possible.

That's my plan for learning kanji.

[GTAman]

i've been studying japanese for 2 years now and i've been using flash cards. they work for me =P

[slavik]

I ordered the Kanji ABC and the Kanji-A-Day books ...

[Zanbatou]

I've learned lots of intensive Chinese and learning intensive Japanese too, and the methodology of learning kanji is similar. Japanese kanji pronounciation is far more varied (the on-yomi and the kun-yomi are annoying), but Japanese requires less kanji to understand most things.

The best way I think to learn kanji is to write them often, not just reading and using flashcards. Try writing a diary, or write to penpals using as much kanji for the verbs and nouns as is practical (i.e. stuff like konnichiwa need not be written in kanji). Soon the parts of the kanji will come naturally (but pronounciation is straight memorization, you don't get much tonal cues as Chinese kanji offers).

[The Bloodlust Kid]

Learn Chinese duh. They are pronounced differently bu the words still mean the same thing. Except when combined with hiragana.

[level3]

Agreed with hobo, learning one by one is pretty difficult due to the variability in pronounciation and meaning per kanji,
Learn by writing combinations is a bit easier. Using flashcard is needed. After all, it's a matter of time & effort...
Japanese newspaper has lots of kanji ^^

[painsama]

Most of the time I try reading the anime episode titles and write all my burned anime CD-Rs in Kanji. But the everytime I know more kanji I feel like that I know nothing about kanji. Still wonder how you guys can remember them. :confused:

[level3]

http://www.manythings.org/japanese/news/

a link that may help a bit

[I.Died.Once]

I just write it like 50-100 times, and make flash cards...

[JehutyAnubis]

even japanese people forget the kanjis y we need to remember all... u should only memorire the most used kanjis

[debil]

First time i tried to learn kanji i used one book with 300 essential kanji,
i learned almost all of them , but it was just waste of time.
Knowing half of alphabet doesnt make someone literate.
Now i am trying to learn all 3000 from begining , i am not even trying to
remember all of them , just primitives.

[AvatarStormBringer]

I would say there are 2 categories of japanese learners: one that knows chinese and one that does not. If you happen to know chinese AND Japanese, then you can relate both kanji and hiragana through the meaning. For those who does not know chinese, I can't think of a better way than to either memorize the kanji or learn Chinese.

PS. I know chinese so when I play games at least I can guess the meaning by looking at Kanji.

[sukatto]

I use Readwrite Kanji that I got from Declan Software on my Pocket PC. Aside from a stroke order error (makes you do them reversed...) it's a pretty easy way of learning. You get a list of ten at a time, go through several little exercises then take a quiz. If you are able to totally recognize a kanji and understand it without error, it gets knocked off the list and is replaced with a new one. It's pretty cool and only $16, so not much of an investment. I've been using it for about three hours and have already knocked off 22 kanji.

It has the full 1945 jouyou kanji in it though so it'll take me a bit to finish...

Nice little prog.

[yung]

Learn Chinese duh. They are pronounced differently bu the words still mean the same thing. Except when combined with hiragana.
It has to do with tones of the next word.
bu2 yao4 (don't want)
bu4 hao3 (not good)

if the next word's tone is 1 or 4, the bu is 2;
if the next word's tone is 2 or 3, the bu is 4.

please forgive my crappy English explanation.:D

[Senna]

not yet i think

[KiraOuyou]

being a chinese that is fairly fluent with japanese (self claim), i would say that knowing chinese does not garentee your understanding in kanji to a decent level. there are a lot of kanji used in context that is not in the context of how chinese uses them

a good example would be something like
妊娠 勉強 etc

the best way to learn kanjii imo is to read more, of course knowing chinese helps to a certain degree, but it does not garentee full understand to the japanese use of kanji.

[yung]

妊娠(ren4chen2), we still use that term in Traditional Chinese...(maybe Simplified one got rid of the characters, so they don't use them any more.)

just for your info...my 2cent

[Hobo13]

http://www.manythings.org/japanese/news/

a link that may help a bit

That link is *****in' dude. I checked it out, mostly just for fun...in the sense that I thought it would be a pitiful awakening to how little kanji I know, but I was highly surprised to find that I knew many more kanji than I thought. I didn't get all the pronounciations right of course, and I didn't know all of the compounds - but knowing at least one, and/or what the general combination of radicals could suggest - I was able to guess correctly more often than not. So that's fun ;D

[koreanwalker]

poncho hit the nail on the head for this one

for adults with the ability to reason and make connections trying to learn kanji the "native" way is a big pile of wasted time. I have been studying kanji in high school for coming up on 4 years and in that time i've 'learned' around 200 or so kanji, with HORRID retention. Around 2 weeks ago i found a book online, titled "Remembering the Kanji" by James W. Heisig and using the system outlined in the book i've learned 400 kanji in the past two weeks.

of course it would be natural to question just how MUCH i've been studying kanji, but in truth its only been about 2 hours per day. That, and using this book i've managed to remember exatly how to write all of those kanji.

The book presents radicals and other groups of stokes that appear commonly as 'primitive elements' to which you assign a meaning, then builds mental images out of the elements of a specific kanji.

Take 夢 for example. This kanji contains the elements (from top to bottom) for flower, eye, crown, and evening ( a moon partially covered by a cloud). the image that i use to remember this kanji is that of a big moon, sleeping in the sky under his 'cloud' blanket - with flower petals over his eyes as he dreams whatever it is that moons dream. it sounds like a complicated story, but it is very consie and easy to imagine. Once you have the image implanted in your brain (takes about 3 minutes) whenever you think of a 'dream' this strange thought comes up. that same strange image is what allows you to reproduce the kanji for dream, 夢, as flower/eye/crown/evening.

note that the above is a pretty complex one so far as this system goes, most kanji only have two elements or thereabouts.

if you're interested, the first hundered some-odd pages of the book are avalable online for free, so you can test out the system to see if you like it. let me rustle up a link..

http://www.ic.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK4/RK4-00.pdf

i'll put it this way: after learning to use the system that is outlined in this book, which is just another form of what poncho uses himself, mastering kanji has gone from a distant dream to somthing that i'll be able to do in a matter of months.

*edit*
It might be worth mentioning that the major thing this book does (besides teaching you the method of learning) is to arrange the kanji in an order that makes sense to learn them in. It makes learning them the way poncho described very easy.

[Astral100]

That was pretty interesting advice on memorizing kanji's writings.

However I would like to ask everyone concerned, what is the point of remembering how to write all those kanjis?
In order to actually memorize a kanji you would need to memorize it's writing, on's, kun's and theirs meanings with writing being the easiest part. Of what help will it be to you if you encounter the kanji that you know how to write but don't know it's exact reading and meanings?

Me not understand :)

I must admit this method does seem the most promising in learning how to write the kanji, but as for the reading and meaning you would still need to learn it the good old way.

As for me I know about 400 kanji, however that means that I know everything there is to know about kanji, not just it's writing. And to be honest with you I don't see the problem of memorizing kanji writings. By the time you have learned all of the kanjis readings and meanings you will also be able to write it. Truth be told however, I also use a system for memorizing the kanji's writing - I simply draw the kanji line by line in my head. It sounds like a long way to it, however after several years of practive I can now reproduce exact order of the kanji strokes in my head in less than a second for kanjis as complex as 30 strokes. And it takes me only several repeats to learn kanji's writing. If you are visualizing it every time you practice that kanji - writing will not be a problem.

I agree that associative way of remembering is a better one, however I don't see how writing a kanji or knowing only it's approximate meaning will help you in the real live.

Say for example you are playing a japanese game. You encountered a word which consists from a kanji that you "know". You know approximate meaning of the kanji, however as you go along you realize that it means something else. Now, how are you going to look it up? What is the benefit of you spending time learning it's meaning?

Unless I missed something out (which is probably the case) I don't see any real benefit from learning the kanji this way.

Learning 400 kanji took me more than 2 years (yeah, I am very lazy). However now that I know them, I have confidence that if I meet them somewhere in the text I will be able to identify their meaning or at least look them up in the dictionary only by their reading.

Can one be that confident after using this method? I seriously doubt it.

Maybe someone can clarify what is the benefit or maybe I just missed something out or misunderstood?

[shonan]

I burn the kanji in my head. Sometimes I get headaches. The way I do it is learn stroke order, pronunciation and meaning. Write it at least 10 times a day so you develop a second nature kind of remembering. Though I am lazy I just read Manga and then use a Kanji Dictionary and translate. Speaking of Translation, Try translate as much as you can with Kanji and sentences. A lot of effort required but the outcome will be remembered.

[Heretic Kazuma]

I must admit this method does seem the most promising in learning how to write the kanji, but as for the reading and meaning you would still need to learn it the good old way.

...

I agree that associative way of remembering is a better one, however I don't see how writing a kanji or knowing only it's approximate meaning will help you in the real live.


Oh yeah, the author himself explicitly states that the book's sole purpose is to recognize, recall and recreate kanji. It does give an edge (similar with Chinese-speaking peeps learning Japanese) in that the meaning can be derived, both from the kanji itself and the context in which it is used. Sure, the reading will be non-existant, but the meaning will be pretty damn close, hehe. ;)

It's true, the book does absolutely nothing for the actual reading and pronunciation. It does not teach you vocabulary, grammar or pronunciation, only ideas (since, that's what kanji really is). The author has said it and so have people who reviewed his book. Reading/pronunciation is to be taught seperately from memorizing it. :)

Also, I believe Volume II of his book teaches you the actual reading and pronunciation in the same style.

Edit:
Yep, looks like Volume II does, hehe...

[Astral100]

I have researched further on this Heisig's system and indeed it seems like it will actually help (a lot) in the overall process of learning japanese language. I am now actually convinced to start this method myself.
As soon as I get some free time available...

[TmSaCx]

I learn Kanji in daily life. Paper's article is the best.

[Mchan002]

me too .. actually the secret of learning it .. is the practcing>>>>

[suzukijirojiro]

Nice to meet you,everyone.
Kanji is very difficult.I'm japanese but,recently I forge Kanji.
so,I can read Kanji,but if I'll write Kanji,I don't recall it.
If you'll be able to write Kanji,You may try to write Diary with Kanji,so you start it from shot easy Dairy.
And When you'll serch Dictionary,so if you'll find it is added another Kanji word ,You may use it soon.If you do so,you may remember it soon.
Do your best!!

[XIV]

I'm Chinese, and studied Chinese for over 1 decade. Thus, writing Kanji didn't really trouble me, so reading the dictionary O_O is the fastest way for me to learn their Japanese readings...

[ecchichuu]

I gave up. Listening is good enough for me.

[SniperTak]

Well, its all about memorizing. There isnt really an easy way to remember all those chinese characteristics. The only easy way to remember, is if you speak and can write chinese. But stil, Chinese characteristics are slightly different than japanese ones.

[Shinreineko]

http://www.manythings.org/japanese/news/

a link that may help a bit

Whoa, now there's a handy link. Rep for you, i'm going to get a ton of use out of that. Just took the first katakana quiz and got 50/50, don't know enough words for the hiragana ones yet, let alone the Kanji ones.

[tsunami7]

The best way to learn kanji is just to read manga mags. I learned how to read fast by reading manga mags. I can read a whole manga mag in 1 hour which is insane. Manga forces you to read fast and if you get manga mags they have furigana for the kanji so bam your in business assuming you have a good vocabulary.

[Minimoni]

I just learn by using them over and over again, as well as reading different things such as manga, books, etc. Its really useful to keep on practicing XD

[kilreli]

ok ok ok. i may be an idiot, but i also need help. im actually in japan right now. ive been here since august 19th. kanji is pissing me off so bad. the thing that is the worst for me is remembering how to pronounce it since most kanji can be pronounced in different ways. so if i do remember both or all of the many ways to pronounce it and when im reading it, i dont know which one to use. im really getting angry at myself cause in 9 days i will have been here for 3 months and i dont think my japanese is good at all yet. i mean, i know a HELL of a lot more than i did before i left, but i dont think im studying hard enough. i was NEVER a studier in America and now its hard to pick it up. Studying is one of the necessary(sp?) evils that always kicks my ass. i have flash cards for regular words but seriously, i am so busy here that whenever i study them in school i fall asleep half the time. i never drank coffee in america but now im having to go the the vending machines at school in the morning and get some. i dont wanna keep going on this path but i cant seem to find a way to get off. sorry i just went way off the topic(if you really want ill just make a new one) but i really need help. anything would be great.
btw poncho i read something from harry loraine(sp?) who teaches the same thing, but my mind just starts going blank whenever i try to think of something crazy....well...most of the time. sometimes i can get things to work. for example "Run" is はしる so i think of someone using giant chopsticks as stilts to run and think "Hashi Run" all i gotta do is take "n" out and im good. but again..most of the time im brain-freakin-dead. i cant quite get fully immersed in the language cause it seems that everyone at least knows a little english (if not then a lot) and everyone also thinks since im american i wanna hear english and see english all the time. its killing me. but on a positive side my friends at school do help me with grammar and word order and junk. so thats good. again, any suggestions you can give will be gobbled up by me. thanks

[lolgasm]

Wow. Lots of long replies. It's not that complicated.

I've been at the Japanese thing for almost 10 years now. Here're my thoughts on the matter.

1) Flashcards.
2) Flashcards.
3) Flashcards.

Seriously. And you only need to go for about 30-45 minutes every other day.

The slope of the learning curve actually tends towards zero as you learn more kanji -- you'll recognize common elements, and this will make remembering them easier.

You'll also find that you can read many more than you can write. There's nothing wrong with this. Really, the only way you're going to remember how to write them is if you go live in Japan. Even most Japanese these days don't know how to write as many kanji as you might think.

There was a survey done recently, and it was found that middle schoolers know more kanji than high schoolers know more kanji than college students (if somebody REALLY wants to call me out on this, I can track down the source). This is principally a consequence of computers. As typing becomes (well, became I guess) more and more common, the need to explicitly remember writing and stroke order for kanji essentially vanished. If you've ever used software to type in Japanese, you know what I'm talking about -- type out the kana, and a list of potential kanji pop up. As long as you can READ them, you're good to go.

So anyway, if you want to learn how to read them, it's flashcards flashcards flashcards, and don't worry about writing unless you're moving to Japan. Most Japanese flip the **** out when a non-Japanese even speaks to them, so reading kanji will be super impressive for sure.

You shouldn't worry about kanji anyway. 10 years of experience, and I say mangled katakana loanwords will always be infinitely worse.

[thelighthawkwings]

The best way to learn kanjis is to read a lot! Mangas that come with the kanji reading are highly recommended.
Writing is also very important, because it helps you memorizing them.

[Taplo]

I've never actually tried to "study" kanji, although I can recognize some over 50 of them by now. How I've learned them then? Well, throught 恋愛ゲーム, of course! :D

[S&T Kawaii Love]

Well, throught 恋愛ゲーム, of course! :DOops I still have to learn those kanji's :D any hints on what it says ^^

[Taplo]

Oops I still have to learn those kanji's :D any hints on what it says ^^

http://kanjidict.stc.cx/dict

That's the best Japanese-English online dictionary I've found. Kanji was "renai", romantical love. So basically I meant dating sims, or h-games if you like. ;)

[Cypher-Khan]

ok ok ok. i may be an idiot, but i also need help. im actually in japan right now. ive been here since august 19th. kanji is pissing me off so bad. the thing that is the worst for me is remembering how to pronounce it since most kanji can be pronounced in different ways. so if i do remember both or all of the many ways to pronounce it and when im reading it, i dont know which one to use. im really getting angry at myself cause in 9 days i will have been here for 3 months and i dont think my japanese is good at all yet. i mean, i know a HELL of a lot more than i did before i left, but i dont think im studying hard enough. i was NEVER a studier in America and now its hard to pick it up. Studying is one of the necessary(sp?) evils that always kicks my ass. i have flash cards for regular words but seriously, i am so busy here that whenever i study them in school i fall asleep half the time. i never drank coffee in america but now im having to go the the vending machines at school in the morning and get some. i dont wanna keep going on this path but i cant seem to find a way to get off. sorry i just went way off the topic(if you really want ill just make a new one) but i really need help. anything would be great.



Replace August 19 for October 3, and American for Australian and you are exactlly the same as me... I was so wierded out when I read your post.

Not as good as hoped, check
Not studying to any real degree, check
Drinking heaps of coffee, check
Falling asleep in class, check....

Damn impressive.

------------

As for the topic... Reading and Writing Kanji is a secondary concern for me at the moment. Theres no real point in being able to read something if you cant speak... it just means you are going to be walking around, reading signs and interacting with no-one.

What Im basically doing at the moment is just focusing on speaking. You can always ask people what things mean if you need to.


I do use Flash Cards tho. Call it peer pressure *everyone* has Flash Cards.

-------------

Also... Im translating Breath of Fire IV (found it in a conveniance store) and reading manga like Shingetsutan Tsukihime and Initial D, neither have Furigana, so it eliminates the training wheels.)

Initial D is really good for this actually, because of its target audience... the kanji are reasonably easy. Still, this is only recognition and reading. But again, I prioritise this over being able to write the kanji at the moment.

[level3]

For foreign learners who do not know chinese characters at all
What they can do is to write and read repeatedly, usually not a single character but a vocab. as kanji in Japanese have variable pronounciations.
Chinese kids learn their chinese characters by repeatingly writing them. You probably don't need to do so for simple characters like english. Once you build up a box of about hundreds of simple kanji, the more complicated ones can be constructed. Then it's flashcards time or random quiz! Formal newspapers have a lot of kanji too~



this site will help a bit too
Adding the url address of the target site,
it will display the hiragana above the kanji appear on web sites
http://www.hiragana.jp/en/

note that not all pages would work with this

[carlanox]

thanks for all the input. I have been learning japanese for almost 1 year now. And now i think it's time for me to start memorising kanji. I just bought "A guide to reading and writing japanese" that contains 1000 kanji. For me i just write it 10 times each and go on to the next kanji. The next day i start writing 5 times each for yesterday words and 10 times each for new words. But i found it quite slow since I really easy to forget things :(. demo ne watashi wa gambarimasu :D

[wintypes]

Little stupid question: How can I get furigana onto a kanji? For example when using MS Word, I can type hiragana, katakana, and kanji, but I have no idea how to get the superscript above those kanji.

Looking forward to some helpful advice.

About memorizing kanji: I always compare the chinese and japanese pronounciation. Dunno if that's helpful, but my memory works fine this way :p

[ForgotMyUserName]

Little stupid question: How can I get furigana onto a kanji? For example when using MS Word, I can type hiragana, katakana, and kanji, but I have no idea how to get the superscript above those kanji.

Looking forward to some helpful advice.


I am not sure about the older versions, but if I remember it right, this feature was only available starting from the Office Xp version.
Here are the steps:
1. Highlight the kanji.
2. Format->Asian Layout->Phoenetic Guide
3. If the phoenetic guide shows chuu-in, highlight all the text (ctrl - a), then go to tools->language->set language, then set the language to Japanese. Then repeat step 1 & 2.



About memorizing kanji: I always compare the chinese and japanese pronounciation. Dunno if that's helpful, but my memory works fine this way :p

It's the same for me too. Sometimes I even substitute the Chinese reading if I don't know the real reading of the kanji.:)

This may be a bit off-topic, but do you know what 賢虚 means? I heard it in a Taiwanese talk show, and it looks like a medical condition, but I can't find it in my dictionaries.

[painsama]

thanks for all the input. I have been learning japanese for almost 1 year now. And now i think it's time for me to start memorising kanji. I just bought "A guide to reading and writing japanese" that contains 1000 kanji. For me i just write it 10 times each and go on to the next kanji. The next day i start writing 5 times each for yesterday words and 10 times each for new words. But i found it quite slow since I really easy to forget things :(. demo ne watashi wa gambarimasu :D

I did that way actually in my early years of learning japanese, but I somehow get bored of it. I find reading manga and looking up the kanji that you encounter worked better, rather than just memorizing the kanji like that without knowing how they are used in japanese sentences. Rather, nowadays, I find being able to recognize kanji is more important that to be able to write the kanji (word processor is really useful). :)

[carlanox]

I did that way actually in my early years of learning japanese, but I somehow get bored of it. I find reading manga and looking up the kanji that you encounter worked better, rather than just memorizing the kanji like that without knowing how they are used in japanese sentences. Rather, nowadays, I find being able to recognize kanji is more important that to be able to write the kanji (word processor is really useful). :)

hmm i did try that. But how you look up the kanji in faster way? coz it's very hard and waste of time to search the kanji you are encounter....and also do knowing 1000 kanji is enough to read manga?

[painsama]

I use Padict on Palm device (not the palm of your hand). It is easier to look up any kanji as you can write the kanji into the kanji recognition area in the program. I agree with ForgotMyUserName in the post below that it's more important to know the words rather than single kanjis since you'll find later that some kanjis that you know are not always read the same way you used to read it (i.e. as documented in the kanji dictionary). Saying that knowing 1000 kanjis is enough to read manga is somehow, hard to say, it depends on what manga you read.

[ForgotMyUserName]

hmm i did try that. But how you look up the kanji in faster way? coz it's very hard and waste of time to search the kanji you are encounter....and also do knowing 1000 kanji is enough to read manga?

It's pretty hard to tell... I don't think there's a sane person out there counting how many kanji he knows. To me, knowing the words or rather getting acquainted with the vocabulary is more important to me than learning the kanji. You can also start by reading manga too. There are a lots of manga out there that has furigana on them. I think JQuick Trans was pretty handy for me because it has a study list function, where you can add dictionary entries to the study list and print them out later.

[carlanox]

what is jquick trans?

[wintypes]

This may be a bit off-topic, but do you know what 賢虚 means? I heard it in a Taiwanese talk show, and it looks like a medical condition, but I can't find it in my dictionaries.

I was too lazy to search a dictonary (and I don't know it myself), but I asked www.babelfish.altavista.com, and it said: "Virtuous". Does that make sense?

btw, ありがとうございます for your help with the furigana :)

[jamesuh]

Kanji kirai!!! I hate kanji so much. It must be the stupidest thing in existence. Why don't they just use good old hiragana? I mean for the TA in taberu, you could just do the ta hiragana, but they have to use that damn janji, I mean, it takes longer to write the kanji than to write the hiragana.

[wintypes]

kanji look cool :)
besides, you can show you've been studying very industrious http://mescal.pixelized.ch/smilies/teach.gif. And Kanji look awesome if written with a brush.

Historically, kanji are a left-over from the beginning of japanese language when people were first using chinese characters which melted into the natural japanese language.

[ForgotMyUserName]

what is jquick trans?

Its a japanese dictionary application. Just like JLookup (free, but without study list feature).

[painsama]

Kanji kirai!!! I hate kanji so much. It must be the stupidest thing in existence. Why don't they just use good old hiragana? I mean for the TA in taberu, you could just do the ta hiragana, but they have to use that damn janji, I mean, it takes longer to write the kanji than to write the hiragana.

I'd think japanese would be more confusing without kanji though. Given there are so many words out there which are pronounced the same way but with different meanings. Kanjis are there to cater for that. Once you're used to kanji you'll find that your reading speed would be faster as compared to reading texts in pure kana.

[C187]

My kanji sucks. (i know around 250 off the top of my head) When I was try'n to learn it, or cram it for a test in JAP221 - JAP311-B I often found that my ash try was full and I needed to go to the gas station to buy more cigs. This seemed to help.

Also going to big boy at bar rush to 7am work wonders as well.

If all else dosent work when you are learning Japanese go to the bar, drink a lot, i do mean a lot! And during that time talk in Japanese to people who know it, and to people who dont. In a year or so, all of your friends know when its time to cut you off from the beer, because your speaking nothing but Japanese. (Or at least thats my case.)

As for a "real" tip with the kanji. Break it down and build it back up. Is what worked the best for me. Also flash memory (only see'n the kanji for a few secounds at a time, you will need a friend.)

[ForgotMyUserName]

I'd think japanese would be more confusing without kanji though. Given there are so many words out there which are pronounced the same way but with different meanings. Kanjis are there to cater for that. Once you're used to kanji you'll find that your reading speed would be faster as compared to reading texts in pure kana.

Yeah. We should be thankful there's kanji. Here is a related post:
http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40751

[S&T Kawaii Love]

I also think Kanji are ok. I agree that when the level's go up it's harder to learn. But they are easier to translate then learning some Kana sentences. I guess it all needs practise.

[Aishiteru]

In my class we learn the stroke order and meanings first. Then we memorize how to write various words using the kanji; mostly vocabulary we already learned earlier. I think we learn about 30 new kanji a week/chapter.

Edit: I recommend two free programs; JFC and JWPce (both made by the same person) for anyone learning Kanji; or just Japanese in general. Best flashcard and dictionary programs I've come across...

[suzuNo]

u have to use kanji to prevent any "misunderstandings" because some words have the same pronunciations. as in obasan and itoko can mean many different pple.　漢字は必要なんですよ

[Talon87]

Not really directed at jamesuh alone (esp. since his post was a month ago!), but at people in general, since I've heard a lot of "kanji-kirai" in my time.

If you don't like kanji, then you should ask yourself if Japanese is right for you. It's that simple. The kanji isn't going to go away because you want it to; the Japanese have been exposed to the opportunity to Westernize their language for a good time now, and the extent to which they've done so seems rooted in loan words. They like their grammar; they like their writing system. I'm not saying that you suck or that you're stupid if you like Japanese but hate the kanji. I'm just saying that you should be honest with yourself and ask if you're going to get all that you want and expect to get from Japanese if you intend to go the road alone without the assistance of kanji to help you along the way.

As other people have said, Japanese as it exists today really can't part with kanji because of the (relative to English) abnormally high number of homophones and paucisyllabic words. Kanji is a blessing, not a curse. :)

Don't mind me, though. I'll be honest and admit my personal bias for kanji. I love them. Half the adventure in reading a Japanese book is the story; the other half is all of the useful and (vocab-wise) familiar kanji I learn.

---------------------------------------

As for the topic, it's probably already been mentioned (sorry, so long! :o ), but the way I enjoy studying kanji best is one of two ways:

(1) Rote memorization through the Japanese Ministry of Education's specified levels
(2) Devoting to permanent memory those kanji that, when I look them up after having discovered them in a doujin or novel, are incidentally useful. (e.g. I learned 為 from a short story)
(3) Flipping through the kanji dictionary and seeing what fun character turns up!

And however you find yourself being exposed to kanji, I always encourage people to look for the fun and funny meanings and stories "hidden in Kanji." I'm convinced that the Chinese scholars who created this system were a bunch of dirty, sexist old men. (One of the earliest and simplest examples I learned being 姉 )

Learning should always be fun. If kanji aren't fun now, try your best to find a way to make them fun. They're your friends! And there's a lot of friends to be made in mastering this language. :)

[Branded Soldier]

pratice makes perfect !!! same goes for learning anything !!!
Learning the the easier kanji first helps or the most commonly used kanji.

-Reading manga with rubi.
-Typing in Japanese on your computer using Japanese word processors.
-Writing journals, grocery lists,etc...
-Tediously writing them over and over again helps to pound them into your head, but becomes extremely boring after awhile !!!
-Turning yourself into a "kanji Otaku" will help as well.

I personally like kanji, but kanji are hard to learn. The multiple pronauciations make it even more difficult.

[LibraRyan]

I think Japanese Kanji are simpler than Chinese kanji. So I have no complaint.
I'm learning kanji by playing games. That way at least some kanji will be repetitive enough for me to memorize it (hopefully). You also get motivated to know the story by translating it.
Is anyone else also brutally memorizing kanji by looking in the dictionary the first kanji you meet? Even if you aren't even sure whether it's kanji/hiragana/katakana.
Well that was 5 years ago anyway, it's behind me now.

[leonard267]

Take up Chinese first. This is where kanji originates from. I suggest you take both the Traditional and Simplified Chinese Scripts.

[eddyg17]

the "best" way to learn kanji is to encounter it. Pick up a book or a video game and or TV series with chineese close caption /subs and read!


If you are just starting to learn kanji (know the grammar) will be difficult, since every kanji will be a new kanji, and you will forget alot of them but as time goes on and you keep on encountering a certain kanji you'll learn it.

[hoshiku]

I started here -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyōiku_kanji
Just repeatedly writing down and memorizing, repeating out loud, all the kanji, in order.

I learned grade one in about a month, grade 2 in about another month, and I'm moving on to grade 3 now.

I suppose later I'll learn compound words and such but for now, I'm sticking with the basics.

[Concept]

How to learn Kanji? Hmmm... Well, I've used two ways, both have their ups and downs.

One is by learning through an organized routine. Starting slow by memorizing kanji via stroke order. The number of strokes usually determines the difficulty of the kanji, by standards, although there are exceptions. Starting slow with the more used terms is usually best, like numbers, days of the week, household items, places, number counters, etc. then working your way up to job professions like 教授 (professor) and 声優 (voice actor) etc.

The other way is my/the old fashioned anime/import game dork way, haha. You listen to speech, and try to translate the sentence or sentences via transliteration, through the use of a Japanese-English dictionary. From there, you sort out the kanji, and practice writing and sounding it out. Of course, for anime, there has to be japanese subtitles for this to work, since you probably won't be able to figure out the kanji just by sound alone if you're not too familiar with the language. But, there are times that you can understand it through context. It's much easier to use with japanese games, usually ADV, that provide the subtitles and kanji, usually with voice playback so you can listen to the sentence again. (of course, you could always use Atlas v.xx and a text hooker to translate... but you're trying to learn kanji, right?) This is the method I'm using now (since I'm a JADV-JSLG gaming dork xD), and it's a slow method, but it works. It depends on how much dedication you put into it.

[Polux]

One is by learning through an organized routine. Starting slow by memorizing kanji via stroke order. The number of strokes usually determines the difficulty of the kanji, by standards, although there are exceptions. Starting slow with the more used terms is usually best, like numbers, days of the week, household items, places, number counters, etc. then working your way up to job professions like 教授 (professor) and 声優 (voice actor) etc.



Yup,thats the way to tenkai. Sometimes I think Kanji was the worst idea ever, but I just cant stop learning more

[AlphaUltima]

actually kanji is brilliant in some ways. it's like english where you use the root words to figure out another word. of course if you don't know the basics then you're screwed. sometimes you figure out other meanings from the kanji or radicals.

obviously there's two schools to this:
i'll tell you now that memorization isn't going to work. this will get you through class but eventually it comes in one ear and out the other. i wrote "letter of recommendation" so many times in class and now i can't even remember the reading for it (suisenjo i think).

then there's application. obviously most of us aren't in japan.

manga is a good start, especially jump comics or any young kids comics where they have the furi next to kanji.

for alternatives, i translate songs i like. depending on what you listen to the words are usually the same. ballad: ai, koi, itoshii, etc.

anime doesn't have much kanji bouncing around, neither does dramas, but variety shows are brimming with japanese subtitles for the spastic speed comedians talk at. of course this is equivalent to watching anime raw.

if you have a ds, there's plenty of japanese programs that help with kanji, trivia, customs, and whatnot. mind you these are targeted for japanese people so it's odd to believe that japanese people are having a hard time being japanese themselves.

unless you also like to learn chinese, don't learn kanji through chinese. there's various and subtle differences that will get you laughed at.

of course there's also going to class :/
if your school doesn't have it, then try buying a textbook. it will more useful than ten dictionaries.

i've used all these methods for half my life. honestly i learned the most through class and variety shows but manga and music helped me see where i was and how well i could comprehend on the fly. if you're learning just to read and watch manga and anime raw then i suggest you look for something else about japan that interest you.

if all else fails, use flashcards.

[naminami]

Take up Traditional Chinese 1st. :3 Or image what they look like to you 'cause Kanji are like...the advance version of pictogram..

[zephyranthez]

Japanese kanji is traditional chinese words, not simplified

I asked my nihongo sensei once, on how she remembered all those kanji. well she was a chinese teacher too so her kanji is already strong, but the most basic way to remember kanji is to see it, copy it while reading it out loud several times, and if you still can't remember it, do it again tomorrow. it takes time but it works
so go to your nearest bookstore and get kanji collection books that sort the words based on the levels and start copying! I've bought 2 of those books but still lacks the willpower to start studying though...

[Freedompopiah]

Ｗｅｌｌ，　ｋａｎｊｉ　ｉｓ　ｎｏｔ　ｔｈａｔ　ｈａｒｄ．　Ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ　ｉｔ　ｍｙｓｅｌｆ　ｉｓ 　Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ａｎｄ　ｋａｎｊｉ　ｉｓ　ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ｃｈａｒａｃｔｅｒ，　ｓｏ　ｙｅａｈ！！ 　＾＿＾
Ｂｕｔ　ｔｈｅｙ　ａｒｅ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｄｉｆｆｅｒｅｎｃｅ　ｂｅｔｗｅｅｎ　ｔｈｅｉｒ　ｍｅａｎｉｎｇ ．　Ｓｏｍｅ　ｍａｙ　ｂｅ　ｓａｍｅ．

Ｅｇ．　大丈夫＝Ｂｉｇ　Ｈｕｓｂａｎｄ　（Ｉｎ　ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ｔｒａｎｓｌａｔｉｏｎ）　Ｂｕｔ，　 ｉｎ　ｊａｐａｎ　ｍｅａｎｉｎｇ　ｉｓ　’Ａｌｌ　Ｒｉｇｈｔ’

Ａｎｏｔｈｅｒ　ｅｇ．　敵＝Ｅｎｅｍｙ（Ｉｎ　ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ｔｒａｎｓｌａｔｉｏｎ）．　Ｈａｓ　ｔ ｈｅ　ｓａｍｅ　ｍｅａｎｉｎｇ．　Ｂｕｔ　ｐｒｏｎｏｕｎｃｉａｔｉｏｎ　Ｉｓ　ｄｉｆｆｅｒｅｎｔ．

[stormwyrm]

I bought a copy of James Heisig's 'Remembering The Kanji' and am using it to supplement my own study of the kanji. I'm close to a thousand kanji from there, and hopefully before my baby's born I'll have figured out the meanings and the way of writing of all the kanji in the book. Professor Heisig still hasn't delivered the second volume, which I ordered earlier this year, which is supposed to cover how to read the kanji, as on the Nanzan Institute website it appears that it's in the middle of a new printing run. It's supposed to cover how to read the kanji... The approach he uses in volume 1 is interesting, involving inventing stories for each kanji to remember how simpler kanji or fragments of kanji (which he calls 'primitive elements') fit together to form the whole character. The stranger the story, the easier to remember.

I also try to read manga, concentrating on manga intended for younger audiences, as these tend to have furigana, whereas most seinen manga doesn't. Love Hina has been very profitable in this regard, with simple grammar that is just about all that my JLPT3-level skill can handle.

I don't think studying Chinese will make learning kanji easier, as Chinese is arguably an even harder language than Japanese.

[dragonlorder]

僕は漢字のこと心配の必要はない、中国人だから～haha I am Chinese so I dont have to worry about Kanji , lol. And sorry for my bad Japanese.

[Shroud00]

I don't study Kanji. So I can only write elementary school level Kanji! Yay!

[AngelsThesis]

i personally suck @ remembering Kanji haha

what i wanna know is how the Japanese got Kanji in the first place,

i heard they're descendents of chinese pplz :D

[Shroud00]

The Japanese were already there, but it was the trading with China that brought Kanji, and a lot of the technology which helped start it off. Such as rice.

[Duo Maxwell]

Playing Japanese games a lot, that's my way of learning XD.

[xmilzoux]

I refer to them as chinese words. that worked for me.

[wildclaw]

It's pretty hard to tell... I don't think there's a sane person out there counting how many kanji he knows.


The Remember the Kanji people do. Of course, I don't know if they are sane. :grin: I would get bored to death long before I finished it.



To me, knowing the words or rather getting acquainted with the vocabulary is more important to me than learning the kanji.


Same here. Personally I play ero games and use AGTH together with Wakan as a dictionary. It may not be the most efficent way, but I am having fun while doing it which is important to me.

I don't spend any effort memorizing the meanings of specific kanji, nor do bother with the pronounciations. The important thing is remembering the words. Meaning and pronounciation come by themselves as you learn more words with the same kanji.

One thing to note is that this method sucks badly if you ever plan to write kanji by hand. However, as I hardly ever write my own language (Swedish) by hand any longer, I see little reason for it. I am mostly only learning japanese to be able to understand untranslated japanese culture anyway.

[rbp]

I do it as most people do (when I get round to it...) write it in the right stroke order... then I repeat it on paper a few times each time reading a reading for it, then I write its stand alone meaning at the far end of the page so if I come back and test myself I cover bits of the page and write whats missing...


Kanji - Readings - - Repeated characters - - Stand alone meaning -

[Setsilya]

I am pretty glad Chinese is my foreign. Well you simply look at words that associate with others, letters that look that same or have similar parts tend to have similar meanings also. It is not really hard. Once you know enough Chinese/Kanji character, they will simply come to mind even if you don't know the defination.

[chuck4994]

When I play H-games (games are voiced) I learn most of my kanji that way. I already know what they are saying from the voice so reading the kanji teaches me the kanji in a fairly simple way though when I have long periods between studying I forget a bit. School Days has been a really good study tool for me with the subtitles.

[hanMERU]

I learned kanji mostly due to hanja I've learned from Corea.
You see, kanji is simpler than hanja, so it's easier to memorize when you know a bit about hanja and/or hanzi.
Also, many Corean words come from hanja, so if you're Corean, you'll learn hanja and kanji fast enough.
Actually, if I remember correctly, Corea teaches hanja at grade 3, and you can take Japanese as third-language in middle school (English is a must-second language).

[madperson]

lol not to be mean hanMERU but Korea's spelt w/ a K and so is Korean but yea just wanted to tell u that~~

oh yea good way of learning is def through Manga~~ but start progressing to novels after a while so it won't be a stand still~~ eroge's not bad either but one really really GOOD way but could be embarassing for some of u is singing~~ lol~~ XDXD aka anime songs w/ lyrics (from cd cases are usually better just cuz it's more visually attractive XD)

[sokuban]

lol not to be mean hanMERU but Korea's spelt w/ a K and so is Korean but yea just wanted to tell u that~~

Both Corea and Korea are acceptable spellings. Corea is rarely used today though. Rumours say Corea was phased out because the Japanese didn't want the country's English name to be before their own in the alphabet.

I guess he spelt it as Corea because he really likes the country. Some people find using Corea is less offensive due to the history of Korea.

HanMERU, do you learn a lot of hanja there? If you learn it and never use it, especially the really complicated ones they use over there, can you remember it?

[watisit]

It isn't very hard for me as i'm Chinese. I have to memorise characters all the time and Chinese characters are the origin of Kanji hence i can guess at the meanings.

FYI, did you know that the Kanji for studying 勉強, looks a lot like the chinese word for "forced" 勉强?

[neokai]

It isn't very hard for me as i'm Chinese. I have to memorise characters all the time and Chinese characters are the origin of Kanji hence i can guess at the meanings.

FYI, did you know that the Kanji for studying 勉強, looks a lot like the chinese word for "forced" 勉强?

Actually iirc benkyou uses the traditional chinese characters for mien qiang.

[Ignit]

since i am chinese i also dont have really problems with kanjis, but it doesnt mean i am not learning them, always carry around a Vocabulary note with me.

[shiracld]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7208
a pretty neat addon that i use that reminds me of my kanji

[sokuban]

Actually iirc benkyou uses the traditional chinese characters for mien qiang.

No, it uses simplified. Well I don't know simplified Chinese, but the character "強" is the shinjitai version of "强". Maybe in simplified Chinese it is simplified more, but those two watisit posted are the exact same character.

[neokai]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

[DokEnkephalin]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7208
a pretty neat addon that 吾 使se that reminds 僕e of my kanji

This has been a pretty powerful tool, good for picking up visual familiarity and making associations with it. I combine this with Rikiachan for quick lookups on the meaning and breakdown on the radicals.

[Godsent]

well at least what they taught in my school is to


learn and remember all the hen (left side of kanji) and tsukuri (right side of kanji)

for example 海 (umi/sea) the three lines on the left side of the kanji is called san-sui, the san-sui usually have to do with water or the sea. So if you don't know the kanji it self, you usually are able to understand the concept of the kanji. 泳ぐ this one also have a san-sui hen, this kanji is swimming.

the works the same way for tsukuri as well.

[DokEnkephalin]

I've been using zkanji for a few weeks, and I'm pretty amazed by the progress I've made. It's still slow going, but before this, I couldn't even keep jouyou 1 in my head.

It's freeware, still in beta but already has a lot of great features. The most useful one is to set up a vocabulary list and turn it into a study test, and test yourself for kanji to English, English to kanji/kana, with answers in multiple choice or typed in kana; answers typed in English aren't supported yet. There appears to be errors in saving global scoring for tests, and z-one admits that the final file format isn't yet stable so your results may not be usable in later versions.

It's also got the full EDICT database with examples from Tanaka Corpus, easiest and most powerful kanji-lookup interface I've ever seen, with animated stroke-order diagrams.

For such an early beta, it's pretty functional already, highly useful and it's low overhead in memory/processor. If you're interested, have a look; I can't recommend it enough.

http://zkanji.extra.hu/index.html

[brother7]

>:D>:D>:D>:D>:D

[BOFH]

"250 Essential Kanji". Great book, explains everything in a way I can understand. Now I can go for JLPT4. ^_^

[ackeejag]

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-9g-49-en-70-1i50.html
with this. i use my flashcart and just download it but all the same it is an amazing program for learning kanji. it has all levels of the kanji kentei which is supposedly an aptitude test for over 6000 kanji.
if you can make it to levle 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_kentei#Level_2
10 being the lowest, you will have successfully learned all of the common use kanji including their writing, reading radicals and meanings. the touch screen of the ds is almost made for things like this. pick it up if you can.