Patriotism...

[chompy]

Here's the thing...

where you are born is coincidence. i see people whining about how great their country is...piggybacking on "acheivements" of people who are from a similar geography...

how can you be "proud" of chance?

patriotism = "better than though" mentality = divisions = war

CONQUER KILL DESTROY

(say hello to the most F*cked up word in the english language)

"GENOCIDE". (no suitable emoticon)

[Serene852]

hmmm... you'be got a point there chompy. Can't really be proud of something you never worked at.

But, it should be natural to have some kind, even a little bit, of pride for one's country.

There's always a very diminutive, and miniscule line between pride and conceit.

That's why its so easy to get confused between the two.

[Nayami]

Unfortunately, the lines between decent patriotism and fanaticism are so blurred that an act of either could be considered an act of the other.

[AnimeWerewolf]

in my opinion Patriotism is just another way of brain washing people into doing what those in power want not unlike religion
used to do and still does to a lesser extent so meet the new religion of Patriotism fall and pray at it's alter or suffer the
consequences of being labled a non Patriotic heretic ! :eek: btw to those who don't know i'm being highly sarcastic !
but to be totally honest i really don't feel i hold any particular loyalty to the country in which i was born in
" hears the distant rant of a red neck if you's don't like it hare den gets the hell outs pinko "
but thats just how i feel about it anyway ...

[Karis Fra Mauro]

Maybe patriotism is just the "polite" way of saying jingoism. I think someday when people mature enough, it will be fine and natural to take a certain satisfaction in the positive achievements of one's country. For the time being though it really is way too easy to manipulate people's feelings for cynical political ends. If you ask me China is a good example of that at the moment. Objectively speaking, the protesters have a point. Unfortunately the whole thing is really just being used by the communists to pressure japan over some minor territorial dispute and win political points. And now it's getting out of hand, doing damage to the economy and hurting everyone for no reason at all. The funny thing is, when the first edition of the dubious history textbook first came it, the only school it went to was one for the mentally retarded (heard this from a BBC correspondent on Radio Netherlands).

[ChibiFirli]

Meh, I have no loyalty to country either :p. I only like my country because I like it here :D:p. Besides, only thing we could be proud of is mentality :p. But I'm am proud to be a fellow citizen to Draco888 :p.

[Karis Fra Mauro]

I wonder if there's a thread for best country? People would probably pick something fictional though, like "The Valley of Wind" :) Not like I've every been out of my country for more than like a day at a time anyway. Too bad so many people go overboard with patriotism, otherwise it might be okay. People need to be more lazy like me, heh heh... Yeah I'd kill for my country except, umm, too tired. Maybe later, when I'm doing my taxes or something.

[brakespear]

As nayami points out....there is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism...it's OK to think your country is good...but to think it's the best, that's where the rot sets in...

[Omega-Poot]

Patriotism will never die.

It's easy to (correctly) blame a great deal of suffering on love of one's country, because the love of one country, generally your own, naturally leads to apathy and enmnity for another country (often, neighboring countries with which you have the least in common, i.e. India and Pakistan (religious), China and Japan (governmental style), etc. The only thing that will halt international strife is the abolition of nations, and this will never happen.

Nations are a product of their environment, hence the tendency of nations to be seperated by geographical as well as political borders. Each nation has a distinct composition of religious, political style, language, economic resources, et. al. Converting the entire world to a single religion, political system, language, and level of affluence, is a logistical impossibility. When people are raised in a particular environment, any person will (generally) feel secure, and thus attached, to that particular culture and national identity.

The primary religions of the world, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judiasm, Islam, Taosim, Atheism, et. al... Virtually all of them simultaneously preach peace and wage war against their neighbors, or between differing factions. You'll never convert 6 billion people to any single religion. Conflict arises when you do.

Every form of government, on paper, operates perfectly. A democracy should work perfectly if the majority can always agree on what is best for the populace. A monarchy should be sufficient when a king has his charge's best interest in mind. Only when people get involved in government does it fall apart. One only has to look to the animosity between communists and democrats (well, not really democrats...) during the Cold War. People tend to be resistant to changing governments; the standard practice is violent revolution, with a few bloodless coups mixed in.

There are several hundred languages in the world, spoken by billions of people. Teaching every newborn child the same language (Esperanto, anyone?) would be a logistical nightmare, as well as heavily resisted by virtually every population. Do you want to have to learn a single, standard language? Of course not. Neither do the Swahili.

The developed, westernized nations of the world, such as the U.S, most of western Europe, Japan, South Korea, are continually in conflict with non-developed countries that have not yet become service-based economies (Afghanistan, China, North Korea, etc.) Despite the rhetoric, the goal of terrorists (and, by extension, the War on Terror) is more financial than religious. Resources are not evenly distributed; the U.S. has abundant tillable land, China has nearly-endless cheap factory labor, the arabic world has oil, and India has a growing number of well-educated professionals in their large population.

Conflict, and the patriotism that fuels and is fueled by it, arises across and within borders due to differences that could only be solved permenantly by the consolidation of the entire world population into a single religious group speaking the same language under one government with evenly shared resources. I can't think of anything that could create such a situation, realistically, aside from a massive landgrab by a (probably Marxist-communist, considering the need for a single religion [athiesm], and evenly shared resources throughout unevenly distributed land) nation that enforces a single language worldwide.

I don't think we'll ever manage to wipe out nationalistic furvor, but mayhap Hollywood can.

[Mai Tokiha]

Yes, patriotism is quite an idiotic thing indeed :rolleyes:
Being born in a certain country is absolutely no personal achievement, so it's really damn stupid to be proud of that.

[Renzon]

Franklin I find patriotism to be the most used and the most ridiculous reason to get killed over something you had no hand in to begin with.

My parents are from Nigeria and I was born here in the States. Regardless of anything one or few things I like about my country you could NEVER get me to fight in a war for any one.

I also agree with the statement about your place of birth. Had I been born in the village and lived there 'til now --living without reliable electricity or running water--, I would have said that was the best place to live.

[Kerii]

Well... what's there to say that hasn't already been said about patriotism? :p

I think most of the arguments have already been put forth.

But all in all, patriotism doesn't hold a candle to religion and evangelistic imperialism. :p :D

[KidSteel]

My answer to the patriotism-question is somewhat similar to my post in the borders-thread. Humanity divides itself in different groups for a variety of reasons. And this goes from small to large scales. You can be proud of the achievements of your family members or of your own village compared to the village in the next valley. That's kind of patriotism, too. Patriotism for countries is a large scale variant of it and if humanity would settle other worlds, there would also be Earth patriots, I'm sure ("those upstarts from Venus have no manners, peh!"). It's so deeply rooted, I don't know if you can remove it completely, it's better to try to keep it in reasonable measures.

Take sports as an example: I don't find it bad when fans root for their teams, some sort of competitiveness is what makes sports interesting, but when it starts to turn into hostility and hooliganism, it's not reasonable anymore, naturally.

[dots]

patriotism is something that can be expressed in many ways. The most common understanding of patriotism is loving your country and joining the army to protect the country. Actually being proud of your country is already a form of patriotism. Also by buying a product manufactured in your country instead of one from another country u are being patriotic. When u buy a product from your own country u drives the economy of your country and that alone is patriotism. Things as simple as not being racially discriminating can already be associated wif patriotism. Supporting your national team in a international competition is also a form of patriotism.

[Karis Fra Mauro]

In terms of economics, buying a product solely because it is from your own country is actually a fairly harmful form of patriotism. Right off the bat it damages the consumer sector, since they are no longer obtaining goods on the basis of quality. What people frequently overlook is that over time it damages the much more powerful politically producer sector as well. Competition is reduced, leading to a loss of competitiveness in external markets (which are of course much larger and diverse). This leads to a greater and greater reliance on the domestic sector, and when inevitably there's a downturn the ensuing harm to producers is much greater. In a nutshell, it was precisely this sort of protectionism that caused the great depression.

I rather like the sports link however. I had the pleasure of guarding a korean mini-mall during the world cup, and it was terrific to see all these kids pop up out of nowhere at 2 in the morning with a bunch of big screen tvs, footballs, speakers and so on. The sheer friendly joy manifested during those games was as far from hooliganism as I can imagine, and for the duration of the tournament these guys even scared away the usual white trash gangs frequenting the area. Hopefully the face of patriotism in the future.

[ArchMichale]

Patriotism is a good thing belive me , even at war . If on world we wont have any patriotism ," u will be occupated by other countries in 5 minutes " -> and restricted by cruel low . But tell me what thing likns people together , when they are abbroad , like Chinatown in city in U.S.A and other small gorups of emigrant , people have better start when they face with the problem with neighboor 4 own country :P !! I suspect , and many people feel this same , that when u are leaving your country , u fill emptyness , some part of u heart stay in home . U are shared by2 countrys , Many people prefer die than go abbroad !! ( in hard time of coz ) So why the did that stupid thing ?? Cos they love own country , people live in it !! Cultural heritage for many decades !! The culture creates u ( in most part local culture !! ) , nothing more !!? U can't denay it !!!! Everybody of us is a patriot , patriot of various things !! When someone is trying harm your close firend , neighbour what shall u do ??!! I are trying to help if u could ??!! Similar like patriotism , We love place where we live , our habits , our culture ( music , cinema , theatre , opera etc ...) our launguage , people who is similar to us ,easy to communicae ;) ..... but we don't see that it is kind of patritiotism , and we dont want to change it :9....

[maekhamin]

okay... before we arguing bout patriotism itself lets talk about the definition...

is it...

killing people in the name of your country?

just plain proud of your country?

brave to critic your country?

support your country in limited condition?

or anything else?

[SniperTak]

What is seen as a patriot by one, is a terrorist by another. The word patriotism means nothing, only said to comfort families which have lost someone in battle. Fighting for ones country is not patriotism, nor is it heroic. It is a foolish battle, and the soldiers are just pawns which are sacrificed for a selfish cause.

BTW, what is cruel? Is it gauging someones eyes out, or simply not helping an elderly cross the street. Your definition may vary from others, and you say that invasion brings cruelty, but yet for others who have never known another life would not call that new life cruel. Just because a country invades another, it does not mean in any way that dictatorship wil follow. Besides, there is never any true Democracy, nor freedom. People would rather follow the beautiful lie, rather than hear the horrible truth. That is why the word patriot is sung beneath every house in America.

[SorryAngel]

wise ;-)

Just one book reference for who cares ;-)

[QUOTE]A clear look at the nature of racist thought and how to fight against it.

Can humanity escape segregating behavior or master the tendency to exclusion? Where does the force of prejudice come from? How might one conceive the philosophical foundations of an effective antiracism? Pursuing these questions, Pierre-Andr