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Cymbaline22
07-28-2005, 12:29 PM
GOOD HEAVENS! Am I the only one here that noticed that the Guilty Gear thread has 1,342 replies!? And on top of that, 15,903 views? (Numbers taken at time of writing)

Going back a few pages in the Gamers Forum, I find that NOT A SINGLE thread in the remaining six pages of the famer forums has as many views or posts as the Guilty Gear thread.

What's more, not even the ORIGINAL Guilty Gear thread got this much attention!

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11024

So what is it that makes Guilty Gear so much more interesting than, oooohhh... let's say..., Mortal Kombat?

Sure MK has had its fallouts before. Ultimate MK3 was basically the last truly good MK game for a while, to be followed by MK4, MK: Sub-Zero, MK: Special Forces (erasing from memory... now!).

They got back on their feet with MK: Deadly Alliance, and they finally fixed some of the problems that was plaguing the earlier games, especially on their foray into 3D.

MK: Deceptions took it a step further and did even better! With lots of mini-games, unlockable characters and levels, online play, and lots of added gameplay features (especially in the arena maps). It is a GOOD solid game!

And yet, when I want to discuss the finer points of this or any other game around here, it seems I get washed out by the constant omnipotence of the GG thread. It draws so much attention to itself that things that I felt are important things to discuss get trivialized and pushed around before falling off the radar completely.

Not just threads that I create either! I've noticed that some really good topics of conversation, both industry wise and individual game wise as well, are getting swept under the rug.

This one by Skye McCloud for example:

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29202

...and even less serious ones like this one by Psygoli:

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23226

Frankly, I don't see any difference between the level of discussion between that thread and the GG thread.

So after trying to post some serious, or interesting discussions:

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29138

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29791

I decided that I'd had enough of not finding enough people here to properly have a balanced conversation, and decided to ask at the source just what the heck is up with GG and why the heck SOOOOO many people feel that they must talk about every intricate combo, move, character, and detail AD NAUSEUM!

I have never played Guilty Gear ANYTHING before. I am interested, yes, and if I have the interest and the money, I'd probably get it, although maybe rent it first since I am not as die hard as apparently many people here are. It just seems horribly unfair to people who want to talk about other games, that it seems like this is no longer the Gamer's Forum, but more like the Guilty Gear Forum.

While some forums may put a cap on threads that just grow way too big (like Megatokyo's), I can't understand why this thread has gotten almost 6 times more posts than ANY other thread in the forum.

GUILTY GEAR IS NOT THE BE ALL END ALL OF GAMES!

The fact still remains that Guilty Gear is a good fighter, and follows classic roots down to the very core which is good. The fanbase and metal background is quite nice. But what about the original Street Fighter games, or DarkStalkers, or Mortal Kombat, or Killer Instinct, or... well you get the idea. Is Guilty Gear the ONLY good fighter out there? Out of 10 years or so of fighting games, Guilty Gear is the ONLY one that ever got it right?

I wanted to come here to discuss games with people that played LOTS of games! RPG gamers, platform gamers, people who play games from around the world, people who are knowledgeable about different types of games, who are interested in being IN the game industry, who know how to make games, and so on!

So far, I have barely gotten a PEEP out of barely anyone, and I appear to not be the only one. I am sure that Skye McCloud is feeling frustration and BubbleMonkey too. Both are good members here on the forums with much to say and intelligent conversations.

Just where are the good conversationalists on this forum huh?

Why can't we talk about something OTHER than Guilty Gear?!

Who else here would like to talk about something else?

~Cymbaline22

jenl12343
07-28-2005, 01:19 PM
I only played the guiltygear on the PC. I forget which one it was. It was a bunch of fun. (as much fun as you can have with a fighter on the PC that is)
I would have rented the newer guilty gear games but they don't have them at my blockbuster. They have the newest version of it I think which didn't quite get a great review as well as the fact that I've had a bunch of other games to finish before I start renting stuff. It would be nice to talk about some of the other games but well I haven't seen any good games out there to rent. The naruto fighting game looks interesting although I figure it will end up being like the dbz fighters (yes I just compared it to dbz ) anyway, I'm looking forward to the new marvel game that should be out sometime this year. I've enjoyed all the vs games that have come out so far since it just seems like a lot of fun to play all the different characters from the comics or games agains eachother. The old classic games were fun. I can remember when KI first came to the local arcade and the graphics were great and the characters were fun as well. The combos were a bit crazy at times but fun overall. KI2 wasn't quite as good somehow (maybe the flashy graphics wore off ) I don't know why but I didn't seem to enjoy it as much and then they never made another one again.... An old game which was good for a laugh was clayfighter.. I think just by looking at how that game was made was neat. MK well... I was never a huge fan of the MK games. The latest one that came out wasn't bad and the second game was fun. (though doing the fatalities can be a pain from time to time)

I've heard mixed reviews on battle raper. I saw a bunch of posts saying they didnt like the second one as well as the fact that there were posts on the torrent site that I would have gotten it from that one of the cracked exes had a virus so I stayed clear away from that game.

Metal and lace and queen of hearts were fun games back in the day.

Cymbaline22
07-28-2005, 01:23 PM
Oh there are some good games out there right now. You just got to know where to look. I've been trying to get people into Psychonauts for a while now, but no one has taken the bait, or not even played the game past the first half of the story! Shame really.

But I'm glad to know that there is at least 1 person here who is interested in other games!

~Cymbaline22

P.S. Wonder if I should shrink down my sig... yeah better do that!

greven1217
07-28-2005, 01:57 PM
I've played GGXX and Isuka. In my opinion XX is better only cuz I don't like the turn function and whatever else they added to the game.

GG has more interesting characters than Mortal Combat. Besides the blood and gore novelty on MK, theres not a lot going for it. The other 2D fighters have more depth and such. GG is also one of the few good 2d fighters that have come out recently. There's just not a lot of these games left. GG took a lot of what made the Capcom and SNK fighters and blended them into something that was easy to get into and fun to play. Also the soundtrack rocks.

Holy Knight
07-28-2005, 03:03 PM
cymbaline: The last good MK before Deadly alliance was MK2. Then it got stupid, having to have a 'run' button and 'run' meter. Good heavens , just having a button to block for a 2d fighter is retarded, but those said additions really made it just plain dumb.

As for guilty gear, many fighters say its the best 2d fighter out there, in terms of balance, depth, visuals, and variety. That's why it rules. :)

Cymbaline22
07-28-2005, 03:28 PM
Alright, those are some good reasons why it's a great game, but I still don't think it deserves over a thousand posts in a single thread. No one game should have that many! At some point, it's got to become repetitive what with all the constant bickering between who the best character is and the analyzing of every possible combo and move.

I just want to see some fair time going to other games you know? I mean, what games other than GG do you guys play? Other than Fighters? Other than Japanese games? What is in your game library?

~Cymbaline22

greven1217
07-28-2005, 03:50 PM
At some point, it's got to become repetitive what with all the constant bickering between who the best character is and the analyzing of every possible combo and move.

I just want to see some fair time going to other games you know? I mean, what games other than GG do you guys play? Other than Fighters? Other than Japanese games? What is in your game library?

~Cymbaline22

Man is that ever true. Ever try talking to people offline who are really into fighting games. I play for fun but these people take it to a whole new level. I've even had people I knew analyzing super smash brothers melee.

I play those strategy roleplaying games like FF Tactics, but I don't think i've seen threads for those. or FPS, but those got kinda boring after HL2 came out.

Oh and theres supposed to be a Warhammer rts coming out. Looked kinda neat.

Desmonthes
07-28-2005, 08:30 PM
I just want to see some fair time going to other games you know? I mean, what games other than GG do you guys play? Other than Fighters? Other than Japanese games? What is in your game library? I only play RPG and fighting game, and there's only Japanese fighting game, GGX rock :D

dvx
07-28-2005, 09:25 PM
I love this game. GGXX is fun (usually with another person). Well that's why I play it.

jenl12343
07-29-2005, 04:56 AM
Cymbaline actually I was pretty much just talking about fighters in my reply. I have heard good things about psychonauts. Though it doesn't seem to be doing so well in sales according to mixnmojo. I haven't played it yet myself but it is on my list of games to play. Tim schafer always puts out good work. Though I'd like to see some more LA style adventures from him....

Garven
07-29-2005, 07:02 AM
Firstly, you should have changed that first poll entry to GG is YOUR god. =P

But... how is the GG thread shoving other threads out of existance? It's only one thread. It's not taking up the entire screen. If you don't want the threads with great discussions going on in them, try reviving the topic. It's that simple. We keep the GG thread alive by... talking about it! What's wrong with talking about something that you enjoy?

If you want to know what else I play besides fighters, or japanese games...
I've been playing a bit of Deus Ex again (not the sequel, I really don't wanna bother with it) and having a blast. Trying to not kill anyone this run through, but it's pretty tough so far. Been playing a ton of multi-play goodness on my Nintendo DS. Meteos, Puyopop, Golden Eye, Bomberman, Mr. Driller... maybe a couple of those have their Japanese origins and should be omitted for your request, but I don't care thta much right now. Other than those, I haven't really had too much time to play anything else. between that job thing and hanging out with people.

If you're looking for serious gaming discussion, head to a board that most probably has more of the demographic you're looking for. I'm quite surprised there were so many that loved GG so much on the HongFire boards, and i'm not complaining.

Sorry for the lack of formatting, but I never really care enough for that sort of stuff on forums. ;p

Zephro
07-29-2005, 07:58 AM
This thread is DQN.
And FYI I finished Psychonauts. Good game too.

seorang
07-29-2005, 08:01 AM
Alright, those are some good reasons why it's a great game, but I still don't think it deserves over a thousand posts in a single thread. No one game should have that many! At some point, it's got to become repetitive what with all the constant bickering between who the best character is and the analyzing of every possible combo and move.

Why not? I've seen threads that can have 10-20 pages, just for one character, though thats not on HF. Bickering it may be, but hey, its a discussion. Thats going to happen.


I just want to see some fair time going to other games you know? I mean, what games other than GG do you guys play? Other than Fighters? Other than Japanese games? What is in your game library?

If you feel so disturbed over it, start threads on other fighting games, and hope that others are willing to post lots for it. There's nothing to stop people posting in a thread, as long as its not spam, and not off-topic. You can start threads for other games, just a matter of whether people are interested in it or not.

Cymbaline22
07-29-2005, 11:12 AM
Quote:

"If you're looking for serious gaming discussion, head to a board that most probably has more of the demographic you're looking for. I'm quite surprised there were so many that loved GG so much on the HongFire boards, and i'm not complaining."

You got a good point there. Any suggestions? And yeah, I too am very surprised that there are so many people here who play and love GG. I never knew there were that many.

Or that they all gathered here!

Quote:

"But... how is the GG thread shoving other threads out of existance? It's only one thread. It's not taking up the entire screen. If you don't want the threads with great discussions going on in them, try reviving the topic. It's that simple. We keep the GG thread alive by... talking about it! What's wrong with talking about something that you enjoy?"

Well what I've seen is that the GG thread isn't intentionally muscling out other threads. The problem is that because there are so many people talking about it, no one ever seems to want to devote some time to talk about anything else. I see that being reflected in the low number of posts, responses, and action being taken in other threads by other people.

As for reviving a topic, how many times would I have to revive something before it gets some real attention? Some topics, like the GTA Hot Coffee thing, are more centered on the here and now, and can't exactly be revived once the whole thing settles down. I don't want people to NOT talk about GG, but I think it would be nice if the GG fans and the other gamer folk talk about other games too! Know what I mean?

Quote:

"If you feel so disturbed over it, start threads on other fighting games, and hope that others are willing to post lots for it. There's nothing to stop people posting in a thread, as long as its not spam, and not off-topic. You can start threads for other games, just a matter of whether people are interested in it or not."

Interest is the key word here... Maybe I should have reworded the poll to disuss how interested people are in talking about things other than GG? Like where they split their time here at Hongfire amongst the various forums, and if they'd want to talk about games other than GG?

Anyway, I'm not going to try and continue making a big fuss over it since I sat down and did some thinking for a while and realized that if I'm going to write this much and think about topics like this that much, then I really need to find some other media to get my writing out in. Maybe a blog or something...

Thanks for some of your input though, and for being good sports about my questions, even though I know that they might have come out a bit rude.

~Cymbaline22

Edit: Went through and looked at responses to what I said in the other thread, and WOW! I seem to have pissed off a number of people over there! I don't know whether I should be worried or proud! But anyway, I'm not going to try and fight that thread there. I just want people to be aware that there have been other threads out there wanting attention, and I think some of the GG folk could take a break talking about GG to talk about other games if just for a minute.

Although I must admit, reading through the GG thread is almost like reading a whole separate language if you don't know the lingo!

okita
07-29-2005, 11:20 AM
You sure do love your inquisitive questions.
Anyways, I have to say I agree with Garven.
What's exactly wrong with having that many posts in the GG thread?
It's one topic, that's not killing other topics( unless you can show an example it is.)

Plus, I don't see what's wrong with having that many posts, you yourself are talking about having good conversations with people about different games and whatnot. Well these people are having a good conversation about something that interests them. What's exactly wrong with that? I mean if you had some good discussion on another topic, would you complain about that getting too much attention?

Anyways, to partly answer your question.
I don't know why Hongfire has so many GG fans. It just does.
As far as why it has so many posts? well quite a few things may come up to add to that.
1) GG is just getting more and more popular in the US. I've been a fan since GGX. That game, while still having it's small fan-base was still widely unknown in the US. GGXX however has swept US for reasons far and wide.
2) The way that GGXX is just made, I'm talking about extra stuff like Unlockable chars. and Mission mode and Story Mode and... There's bound to be question on that subject( moreso in the beginning or for new players )
3) Like many fighting games, this game has an end boss. I guarantee that there would be question on that( again, moreso in the beginning and for new player )
4) With the cast of chars. 23(#R) there's gonna be a significant amount of char. discussion. I mean if you can split this forum even more with separate Char. discussions than the forums would pan out more, course this isn't GCC. Also though I think GG is a fairly easy game to get into, people are coming up with more unique ways to play with chars. Example being Sol, I remember back in the day Dust Loop was( while still top ) very limited with set-ups. But nowadays people know how to set it up from anywhere.
5) You go to any major tourney these days, the main tourney games would be CVS2, MVC2, T5, VF4, GGXX#R and even 3S and some KOF( if I leave out a game forgive me ).
6) GGXX is just a pretty game to look at, though opinions may vary. That's just another plus for more new gamers to come in and play this game. Thus the whole brutal cycle starts again.

Either way, I'm just rambling now.
Anyways I just wanted to add, while it's easy to look from the outside and question why a topic has so many posts. I'm not surprised by it getting so many posts, I'm surprised that other topics aren't as popular, but that's not really for me to judge. It makes me wonder how SC2 did back when it was still popular?

Anyways, as far as your other question
I play other fighting games as well
Garou MOTW, Vampire, MVC2, CVS2, GG, DOA, SF
as well as RPG and other type of games
I think my queue of games include Killer7, Star Ocean EOT, Riviera, ichigo 100, Venus and Braves, Tales of Destiny 2, and ZOE2 just to name a few
Course, I don't post on Hongfire for those games, I go to indivisual boards for most of these games. I guess they just aren't as popular on HF.

hfbox
07-29-2005, 08:05 PM
You left an option out in that pool. I vote for,
"Played it? never heard of it."

wyze
08-08-2005, 02:44 PM
being myself a gg player and having been a fan of the gg series since the first gg on ps, i feel a need to mention my 2 cents on why gg is such a great game with such a large fanbase. i think that there r so many gg fans among us cuz unlike other fighting games, gg seems to attract a wide variety of people. i am not saying that other fighting games dont do this, imo just think that gg does it better. gg seems to attract both a large number of veteran fighting gamers as well as noob fighting gamers(anime lovers who mostly play rpg's etc and dont typically play fighting games fall in this category) due to its great visuals and fighting system.

although every fighting game can attract both types of gamers they usually attract more of one type. for example doa seems to attract a large number of noob fighting gamers, although there are some really great players out there, the game imho relies too much on visuals and less on gameplay(the risk versus reward regarding counters is screwed up but that is a whole nother topic). unlike doa, a game like 3rd strike is practically on the other side of the fighting game spectrum. 3s requires lots of timing and technical skills which can be gigantic hurdles to noob gamers lookin to get good fast. as for visuals many people have told me that compared to games like sc and gg, 3s looks a tad slow and dated.

in the middle of the spectrum stands gg, boasting both great visuals and a great system. the graphics and sounds alone are candy to ur eyes and ears and is enough to turn the heads of any anime fan regardless whether or not they typically play fighting games(this is the reason why there is such a large fanbase filled with cosplayers and fanboys/girls). the system is also responsible for the large number of gg fans. gg has made an effort to balance the game by the creation of general moves which can be accessed by every character. despite the fact that tiers exist in the game, general moves/techniques that everybody(with the exception of one or two characters in certain areas) share ie burst, double jump, dust, sweep, ect help promote balance in the game. a great article can be found on sirlin.net:

http://sirlin.net/Features/feature_GameBalancePart2.htm

going hand in hand with the great fighting system and character design is the unique style of play possessed by each individual character. whether u play a countering baiken or a millia with a mean tandem top top/down game, in the hands of seasoned master each character can trigger oohs and ahhs from a surrounding crowd.

imo the gg thread is populated by both types of people and has become an overblown fan and strat thread.

as for other games i like mostly fighting and rpg's
other than gg#r currently playing: mbrft, efz, garou, fighters history dynomite aka karnov's revenge, old school d&d side scroller

orka
08-08-2005, 06:23 PM
wyze, that's a pretty good article for a intro to GG.

One thing I will note is that all characters were designed by one man, Daisuke Ishiwatari. As a matter of a fact, he is basically responsible for the architecture of GG. Not only did he design the characters: he is also responsible for game physics, every single music track, storyline, and also the voice of Sol Badguy.

I'd also throw in about dusts and jump cancels, but that's about it. FDC also plays a role, but I don't think that was originally intended, so I'll leave it at that.

wyze
08-08-2005, 08:30 PM
glad u liked the article orka. the art direction in gg as well as the music is great(better than the korean version imo). daisuke has a great imagination having created such great characters and music. being an aficionado of metal and rock, that genre of music seems to play a great influence in his work. many references to rock can be found in gg from the obvious: axl low=axl rose, ino=jrock's shina ringo, ky's "ride the lightning" as well as millia's "winger", to the not so obvious: chip zanuff=named after enuff znuff, sol/frederick=named after frederick mercury lead singer of queen, eddie/zato-one=named after blind swordsman zatoichi(not rock but meh). also i think daisuke only plays sol's in game voice(yells, saying moves) and not his dialogue/story mode voice.

ur right, there are still many techniques that i have not mentioned like jump installing(buffering up into a jump cancelable move so that u gain double jump/air dash properties in a situation where u normally wouldn't), option selecting aka smart throwing, and impossible dusts(untechable dust), which provide depth and numerous possibilities for high level players.....*cripes*, better stop dont want to turn this into nother gg thread, better redirect myself to the appropriate thread.

before i stop i would like to say that contrary to how i sounded in my previous post, i totally respect the doa series and have been a fan of doa since the very first game. i will not deny that, like other games, doa has the potential to be played at a high level. however i also think that, like other games, doa can use alittle bit o tuning here and there which i hope will finally be addressed and refined in the 4th game.

orka
08-08-2005, 08:54 PM
I never use option select for whatever reason. Maybe 'cus I play Dizzy, and her dot range on air throw is so huge...

Impossible dust combo looks cool, but it's easy to mess up so I usually stick with her standard one (D, JH, JH, JS, JP, JS, JP, JS(JC), JS, JH) which does way more damage anyway. The only impossible dusts I try are her D, FD, JS, JD, Bubble, JH, land, JS(JC), JS, JH and D, FD, JH, land c.S, f.S, AI if I want a knockdown.

I stop now too.

wyze
08-08-2005, 09:47 PM
i play jam, millia, may as my mains:

jam: i just use normal dust combo, d,[8],hs,hs,hs,s,dj.s,hs,236k,263k,214 does decent damage, does great damage after rced 236236hs(adds more damage to following attacks).

millia: i dont use dust/or impossible dust, i just rely on combos from throws and knockdown for top setups. also use pin for counter hit.

may: i try to use impossible dust combo d,[8],hs,hs, dj. land while opponent is in the air, vert dolphin frc, from there do b&b combo depending on character. my normal dust combo is d,[8],hs,hs,hs,d,dj.hs,d.

sorry, okay i stop

Overture
09-23-2005, 09:03 AM
First , to clear things up... Im not a GG fanatic (don't mention my avatar, i like the character)..Im a gamer... and a damn good gamer at that... I've played games since the oldest arcade machines you can imagine... i've played street fighter and SNK fighters like no other man has... and im known all over my country and even another one i visit (namely KSA) for my skills & Experience in ALL fighters in general. 2D or 3D.

Why am i bragging like mad? because i dont want any of the "you dont know how good (insert fighting game name) is compared to this...etc" crap.... Remember when we all went bananas over Street Fighter Alphas ? The colors were so bright, backgrounds look so crisp... heaven... The mechanics? still as jerky as ever.. when u turn to SNK (most solid realistic fighting mechanics, tho a bit slow, to this day) you find ugly SEVERELY outdated graphics and, like i said, slow gameplay...

Now For the god of evolution... The REAL next step in fighting games.. you see, the step shouldn't have been a dimensional step...you dont claim to have "evolved" when you move a fighter from 2d to 3d... When u do that you've just changed Genres .. Not right. Sammy and Arc understood that. Daisuke (creator of Guilty Gear "anything") had a vision, and by god its been realised. Give me any fighter faster than this (without being completely idiotic, dont even dare bring up Marvel Vs Capcom 2*) Better looking and colorful in a maturely acceptable way, all in such balanced totally innovative style... In short , you can't find a rival to compare to.. That's evolution for you... SURE some hate the fact that weapons kinda interfere with the formula (i certainly did) Others would argue that the airdash is a bit dumb (and i kinda agree) .. but overall, they dont get any better than this... Play the game, and give credit where credit is due. If its got a big thread then by god its damn popular if nothing else.. Look at the likes of Halo and Halo2 ... HalfLife 1 and 2... Damn it i think they're all overrated, but can i say shit about the games themselves, they kick ass, and to each [enthusiast] his own..

*(note : Marvel Vs Capcom2 is one of the best Capcom fighters at all, if not THE best.. i love it and lord knows it sucked up my spare time like a blackhole. I just dont think i can ever say "he's better than "someone else" at MvC2" cuz the game aint balanced or to technical , still thats a very shallow view of mine since i didnt play it in versus mode alot [yes its ot a kickass single player experience , go try it]) *

Oh the irony ... the previous post is actually talking about GG...

Narayan
10-26-2005, 04:37 PM
Well, Guilty Gear is one of the more anime-influenced fighting games out there. You do the math. Oh, and it also happens to be a solid fighter in addition to all its cool hi-res sprites and heavy metal music and such. I prefer 3rd Strike myself, but I can see why people would enjoy GGXX so much. If it IS GGXX they're talking about, that is.