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Azstraph
02-14-2012, 10:05 AM
Browsing through my computer sites when I notice this article on the Canadian government moving today to re-introduce a bill for them to have warrant-less Internet spying. The legislation would require service providers to provide law enforcement with IP addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and other information on demand. The bill would also "require ISPs and cellular phone companies to install equipment for real-time surveillance and create new police powers designed to obtain access to the surveillance data."

Challenged by an opposition member about the proposal, public safety minister Vic Toews cited child pornography as a justification for the bill. Opponents of the legislation "can either stand with us or with the child pornographers," he said.

"Apparently if you care about civil liberties in this country you obviously side with child pornographers, murderers," countered Green Party leader Elizabeth May said. "You're the worst form of scum if you believe the Charter’s an important instrument for the rule of law in this country. I'm horrified by this kind of rhetoric. It demeans us all."

Source: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/canadian-government-proposes-warrantless-internet-spying-bill.ars

Ferrin
02-14-2012, 01:22 PM
democracy is dead.
long live plutocratic pageantry.

sithstormjedi
02-14-2012, 03:39 PM
ah yes... the child pornography card.
How about spend that much needed money and energy on somewhere else... like lets say... restructuring the damned inefficient healthcare program, or dealing with the Canadian debts or something.

Bring back capital punishment and harsher sentences, its no good if taxpayers money is spent on an elaborate catching net only to let them stay in a broken cage.

BloodmageR
02-14-2012, 04:11 PM
^ Hmm, no real use for implementing capital punishment when the process of getting them killed cost more than keeping them imprisoned for life. Then there is the fact that you join that list of countries that use that of which the world frowns upon. But of course I believe that they should be harsher on violent crimes and much lighter on drug related crimes and the such. Decriminalization would be a step in the right direction and of course legalization would improve the world's fiscal situation quite a bit.

But relating to this thread, it's a classic card of dictatorships to throw out the unreasonable fear mongering card when they have a completely unnecessary bill to pass for the sole interest of media elite. I can't believe they threw out that card though, it's like Godwin's law on the internet, completely ludicrous and they expect us to believe anything they say now.

Ugh, this era of Bush-era authoritarian policies is truly the worst. I'm proud that I am one of the 80% in my riding to vote NDP(center-left) but I truly hate being thrown into a government with policies that I utterly oppose.

sithstormjedi
02-14-2012, 04:44 PM
^ Hmm, no real use for implementing capital punishment when the process of getting them killed cost more than keeping them imprisoned for life. Then there is the fact that you join that list of countries that use that of which the world frowns upon. But of course I believe that they should be harsher on violent crimes and much lighter on drug related crimes and the such. Decriminalization would be a step in the right direction and of course legalization would improve the world's fiscal situation quite a bit.

well...fine,im not that cold-blooded. Seems like i used the wrong term... the one im looking for is Corporal punishment (i know big difference)
Im just asking for stuff like Caning used in Singapore, or hard labor like breaking rocks into gravel (in the northwest provinces for extra damage).
We need that "fear" factor for crimes that endangers other lives...

Then again my views on punishments like those are not really well accepted in my group of friends.

And although i am right winged, the Conservative party (Conservative/Alliance party) really isnt my favorite as well as all the parties.

BloodmageR
02-14-2012, 05:14 PM
^ Ahhh, I don't believe the fear of corporal punishment would see a decrease in the frequency of crimes committed. Then of course I wouldn't hold up countries with Sharia law or other physical repercussion solutions as being particularly effective at deterring crimes. Especially canings or throwing rocks which are archaic deterrents to crimes in my honest opinion.

You really wouldn't want to use them for anything like penal labour such as chain gangs breaking rocks or construction, farming etc. since that would add a financial incentive to keeping criminals incarcerated. That begets a terrible system where it's profitable to keep everyone there as long as possible.

The main goal for criminals should be rehabilitation and not punishment. We want these criminals to be productive members of society once again and not just trapped in the cycle of incarceration, release, repeat.

Hmm, I wonder if there are any other Canadians here other than me and DNS who are left wing...

But yes this is a bit off topic from talking about the horrid bill that they're trying to pass. Surely no one can support such a blatantly obvious obstruction of human rights to privacy.

SFOHollandMGO
02-14-2012, 05:17 PM
democracy is dead.
long live plutocratic pageantry.

*sigh* too true, has always been true, we humans worship shinny metals

Basically your sig quote is... everything people need to know right now in the information age.
But I wonder sometimes...

Is this what people want? Or is it want they dont want to understand?
Safety is a very convincing illusion

6531597
02-14-2012, 05:21 PM
wow, the idiocy of all governments is just mind blowing horrible.
I knew people are just that retarded but seriously?

so opposing this in the interest of freedom must mean I'm a pedo,
thief, and murderer who's just waiting to bomb Canada?

Instead of people not knowing if their neighbor is a pedophile,
now they've got a peeping tom government to spy on them too.
that is SO MUCH BETTER! /sarcasm

kiku8
02-14-2012, 05:32 PM
^ Hmm, no real use for implementing capital punishment when the process of getting them killed cost more than keeping them imprisoned for life. Then there is the fact that you join that list of countries that use that of which the world frowns upon. But of course I believe that they should be harsher on violent crimes and much lighter on drug related crimes and the such. Decriminalization would be a step in the right direction and of course legalization would improve the world's fiscal situation quite a bit.


The only type of the death penality ever used in Canada was death by hanging, not exactly expensive. And with using a long drop it is the most humane way to execute a person, other then a bullet to the back of the head. The persons neck breaks from the fall within a few seconds they lose consciousness and within minutes are dead.



The main goal for criminals should be rehabilitation and not punishment. We want these criminals to be productive members of society once again and not just trapped in the cycle of incarceration, release, repeat.

I agree with you, but also think in rare case that death by hanging should be used. Such as Clifford Olsen.

For the this law itself it is against the Canadian Charter of Freedom and Rights (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/charter/page-1.html#l_I:s_1).

The parts in question

2 (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

11 (c) not to be compelled to be a witness in proceedings against that person in respect of the offence;

Then again this is Tories we are talking about like they care about the charter of rights. It is really too bad we are not a democracy but an elected dictatorship.

Karis Fra Mauro
02-14-2012, 09:23 PM
I don't mind the tories too much, although I did vote for poor old Ignatieff in the last election. As irritating as our courts can be (not a fan of all the get out of jail free cards for real criminals like murderers) they're pretty reliable when it comes to striking down the more stupid excesses of technology bills. In all seriousness the opposition parties need to damn well get their acts together fast. Have some credibility when it comes to economic policy instead of populist blather about taxing the rich (I want to BE rich, not punish the rich who will just move to another country and pay no taxes at all if the government gets carried away) and maybe the conservatives would be too worried about losing the next election to pass moronic legislation.

sithstormjedi
02-14-2012, 11:23 PM
Although i sort of support the tories, i didnt for this election... after all it was pretty much a clear win for them, as well as the area i live in; the conservatives always win. So my family and i voted for Green party... it was pretty fun watching the Bloc party fall and the NDP rise (my apologies to Bloc supporters).
I hope this bill just shelved like that internet quota bill about a year back...

Karis Fra Mauro
02-15-2012, 02:18 AM
Speaking of Canadian politics, which I'm sure everyone finds delightful, I saw a newspaper story that at the latest liberal party convention they voted to legalize marijuana the next time they win power. This would have been a big deal until quite recently. I think it would be a great idea myself but even in the party's glory days it had a habit of making dramatic promises it never intended to fulfil.

sithstormjedi
02-15-2012, 08:52 AM
Speaking of Canadian politics, which I'm sure everyone finds delightful, I saw a newspaper story that at the latest liberal party convention they voted to legalize marijuana the next time they win power. This would have been a big deal until quite recently. I think it would be a great idea myself but even in the party's glory days it had a habit of making dramatic promises it never intended to fulfil.
Im not that happy about it, the same with the injection-safe site near the chinatown area, as well the old decision of of placing low economic housing near the chinatown area...
As a chinese, its sad to see a historically cultural area turn into blackmarkets, druggies out on the street and scum whereas everywhere else has a hidden to little amount of them outside in broad daylight.

Veneficae
02-15-2012, 01:16 PM
ya i saw this yesterday too...basically that guy is an asshole trying to pass a law that degrades everyone. Now we need some hackers to hack into his computer for child pornography he so allegedly say he is preventing with this law.

Ferrin
02-15-2012, 01:35 PM
wow, the idiocy of all humans that support governments is just mind blowing horrible.
I knew people are just that retarded and indoctrinated but seriously?

so opposing this in the interest of freedom must mean I'm a communist, pedo,
thief, and murderer who's just waiting to bomb Canada?

Instead of people not knowing if their neighbor is a taliban, communist, pedophile, music downloader
now they've got a peeping tom government and neighbourhood to spy on them too.
that is SO MUCH BETTER! /sarcasm
damn commies.

Karis Fra Mauro
02-16-2012, 09:52 AM
Im not that happy about it, the same with the injection-safe site near the chinatown area, as well the old decision of of placing low economic housing near the chinatown area...
As a chinese, its sad to see a historically cultural area turn into blackmarkets, druggies out on the street and scum whereas everywhere else has a hidden to little amount of them outside in broad daylight.

Most of the businesses in Chinatown seem to have the area for Richmond sadly. I can't even go to Hon's without some junkie wandering in and harrassing me. Floata is still safe at least, but there's really no point to going there unless it's for dim sum in the morning or lunch. Bit difficult given my nocturnal biorythms. All the hobos running amok do make one wonder what the point is of passing new laws when existing ones are clearly not being enforced.

6531597
02-17-2012, 02:09 AM
Most of the businesses in Chinatown seem to have the area for Richmond sadly. I can't even go to Hon's without some junkie wandering in and harrassing me. Floata is still safe at least, but there's really no point to going there unless it's for dim sum in the morning or lunch. Bit difficult given my nocturnal biorythms. All the hobos running amok do make one wonder what the point is of passing new laws when existing ones are clearly not being enforced.

psshht, everyone knows the true chinatown is Richmond. it's like 80% asian!

Karis Fra Mauro
02-17-2012, 08:11 AM
It sure is now, but the historical one is downtown. I get a kind of pretentious Honger vibe from Richmond whereas the scruffy downtown one feels like in its golden days it could have been the basis for Big Trouble in Little China :) Mind you Richmond is where I got all my video game stuff modded, starting from way back in the days of the sega mega drive. Another facet of the things the Canadian government frowns upon of course.

sithstormjedi
02-17-2012, 04:59 PM
Well, i go to Richmond for my tutor lessons and the excellent food they have there.
But sadly, im on the island of Formosa... nowhere near the great chinese foods of Richmond. Or the sushi for the matter.

But Vancouver's Chinatown is one of the oldest and culturally richest, its still sad to see the once great town of Chop Suey and Egg foo yong go into such a dampening state.
Although i still go there for fresh vegetable/meats for my chinese cooking.

springheeljack
03-02-2012, 07:51 PM
Wow that would be really scary if such a thing was passed
but man that is such an old fear tactic to use so let us hope it does not work
that would suck if this sort of thing became a precedent

Karis Fra Mauro
03-07-2012, 06:04 AM
I'd be more prepared to indulge the wishes of law enforcement if they could be bothered with arresting the people who interfered in the last election here in Canada. I'm pretty sure there are laws against electoral fraud but somebody seems to have decided they aren't worth enforcing.