Can something be done about members with very low ratios?

[synce]

It seems there's people here that do nothing but leech, stealing bandwidth from the community. Personally I haven't uploaded any files myself, but at least I have the courtesy to seed files after I'm finished with them. There's members out there with downloads in the gigabytes that haven't uploaded even half of that. At least seed for crying out loud. Without seeders there'd be no torrents.

Anyway, I'm curious if anything will be done about people with low ratios. It seems like there's no purpose for them. Boxtorrents.com seems to be doing something about it, so I thought I'd just ask you guys.

[orka]

Yea, I think seeding is very (perhaps most) important in keeping this kind of community healthy. I personally make sure to seed twice the amount that I download at all time.

I personally don't have much opinion against the heavy leechers, as they probably have their own reasons. But those that refuse to seed know who they are, and so do we.

[Veniogenesis]

I personally don't have much opinion against the heavy leechers, as they probably have their own reasons. But those that refuse to seed know who they are, and so do we.

I agree wholeheartedly. Although it would be great if everyone could seed, some people still have their reasons for not seeding. (Maybe they're in tight time restraints or their bandwidth is awful or maybe they're firewalled unidirectionally, etc.) Nonetheless, it might be somewhat of a good idea to do something about users who download a large amount but never seed. I can understand people who download a few thousands of megabytes without uploading more than a few hundred megabytes. But I detest those who download dozens of gigs but don't upload whatsoever. (And there are many out there like that.) Maybe something should be done about it.

Or we could just ignore the evil people, act ignorant, and live happily together with the kind people. :D

[jsnut]

Well, same old problem. Nothing can really be done unless we start to ban those users.

So just ignore them for now and don't respond when they request something. ;)

[HongFire]

Yes when someone's ratio is very low then we will do something about it. Ban their account/IP for few days weeks month. But some people maybe just have slow connections and if their ratio is bad but they are supporting the community in other way then it's still ok. Don't worry we are watching it.

What you guys can do to prevent ppl just leech and run is when you see someone with bad ratio requesting stuff you can just ingorne them and only help the memebers that helped the community as well.

[srea]

Don't be more serious about it, the stat didn't update on some member.

[Digix]

Up/down rartio is notting usefull. It is better if you seed longer than if you seed faster.

the faster download means shorter torrent life so we need slow and long living seeds, as much as fast high ratio.

torrent protocol itself takes care of low ratio users. faster upload means faster download when only few slow seeds available. but if there is many fast seeds anyway then why should you care about ratio for that file?

also if someone provides new intersting content it is more usefull than seeding few GB of old data.

[Marcos]

No offense guys, but dosen't the problem more so lie in the people who don't even bother sign up? Here is the stats taken off the main page reflecting the current problem:
"Active Users: 515 members and 249 guests"
Now I assume those are people who are simply logged into Hongfire and does not reflect the people leaching off of us on the actual tracker. For the current games that I am seeding, I am the only seed logged in (currently at least), vs 16 leachers. In theory, I *should* see those 16 become seeders tomorrow(ish, my connection isn't the best), but we all know that won't happen. I hope I don't sound like a smartass, but I think this kind of situation comes natural with having a public community. I know i'm new here and my words may not carry much weight, but I think I am speaking logicaly and reflecting the situation with accuracy.

Sure the people who are signed up here and have really bad ratios could be a problem, but shouldn't it more so lay in the majority of lurkers? Of course i'm not really offering much of a solution to the problem, but did anyone notice an evening of up/dl ratio's for your torrents during the server change a week or so ago? (I kinda came mid way through that, so I wouldn't know)

[knets]

Well... considering that the damn ISPs out there that don't offer unlimited DL/UL (like the one I got, 10GB UL and 20 GB DL per month!)... the allowed upload rate is lower then the download. Mine for example, if my stats were at 0 UL 0 DL and I use ALL of that DL/UL capacity in leeching/seeding from this site/tracker... my share ratio will STILL be 0.50. Not too high right?

Besides, sometimes the stats dont update... for teh people who'se problem is just that, then you can't blame anyone for it.

Your ratio watch can also be pretty weird/funny/stupid sometimes... look at Marcos! No one here has higher share ratio! Bow to him! Not really... hes done some good enough amount of seeding, and thats what matters. And he is right, the people that dont sign up are the main problem. They wouldn't feel part of the community anyways, so they don't feel the obligation to help out.

Besides, if saying people with low or lower share ration (example, lower then 1.00) should be taken care of... then what about HongFire for instance? Aside from saying he is the host and founder n all (wich I don't deny... this is a mere example) his share ratio seems less then 1.00 to me for now. Does that mean he has no right to download anymore? Arr... not exactly. Besides you cant seed if you dont download something first.

And yes, me for example... I've seeded for a few GB before November and none of it got caught and meddled into my stats on this site. Now for some rare smaller sized torrents it updates, but else, not really. So yeah. My share ratio is still 1. something... I wanna see it go higher! =p For the heck of it.

[TeaHouse]

sorry i can't see my ratio or my upload/download yet -_-; so i can't really say much about this matter -_-; gomen....

note: i already posted on that thread for not showing up just in case you were wondering....

but yeah...it would be kewl to have a little banning system ^_^ but hey...i am only a newbie with nothing to show -_-;

[Crys]

I think that we should give a spelling test to anybody with a ratio lower than .2 and
if they can't spell "please" and "thanks", they should be banned

can sum1 plz seed plz k thx--BANNED!

[JSeabolt]

I think that we should give a spelling test to anybody with a ratio lower than .2 and
if they can't spell "please" and "thanks", they should be banned

can sum1 plz seed plz k thx--BANNED!

No, that's the follow up test. First find out if they can spell "you," "are," and "one."

[Crys]

[QUOTE=JSeabolt]No, that's the follow up test. First find out if they can spell "you," "are," and "one."

[JSeabolt]

You know what? I think that we should legitimately look into this as a potential banning system! Even if the leechers manage to outsmart us by learning to spell, there's a bright side: They will be forever scarred with the knowledge of proper online spelling omgwtf!!!1

"Oh, no! Now I know how to spell! Everyone! Too hot for you! See You Later! Please! Thanks! OHGODNOWHYCAN'TIABBREVIATEANYMOREI'MMELTING......

Lovin' it.

I would pay money to see that... >_>

[Noed]

Considering the ratios don't record very accurate I think starting to ban people based on it is a qiute bad idea.
Before I took some time to configurate my BT-client and my router my ratio didn't record very much/quite strange, even thought I seeded more than 2.0 on most stuff I d/l:ed. I would get quite pissed if I was banned witht the reason "you are a leecher" then ^^.

[micchi]

are member with low ratio will be banned immdiately banned? without charge with warn? there must be any clarification why some member have low ratio isn't? low ratio doesn't mean they aren't seeds

[Tempest]

true low ration could mean your upload is slower than your download but if they would keep it open for awhile or even try uploading if possible .......... i tooo WAS a low ration leecher but i tryed to keep it open over night so most people can dl it ....... but i think warning them first would be nicer than just banning them straight

[RoodyPooUS]

Most posters so far have a pretty good connection so its easy to say but for others, it isnt so easy.

For some of us, seeding is really difficult as there is so much to dl, and my upload is literally 15kb and dl 300kb.

I can understand how hard it is for some people.

I have started seeding some at work and trying not to get caught, in order to raise it as much as I can, or else my ratio would be like .2.

[Impkeeper]

ReQuest!!.. Repair the update servers on Rateing befor you start kicking peapol i have like 5gb uploaded date that i havent yet been accounted for, i think its do to slow update Servers, but i guess its ok aslong as i dont get kicked for seeding, corse thay would realy suck, sinse it wont show my actualy number that i'v seeded

pleas try to fix it if its posibul :)

[Soran]

ReQuest!!.. Repair the update servers on Rateing befor you start kicking peopleExactly!
I'm not sure whether it's a server problem though,
people use so many different bittorrent programs, etc.
I my ratio according to Azureus is about 1.5 ,
yet the ratio displayed recorded at the site is ridiculous ( 0.37 right now )

Also i agree that people should be warned first,
because even if records become more accurate,
there still could be some tech. problem, so that someones stats aren't updated/recorded correctly

[JSeabolt]

Relax, everyone. There isn't any ban-people-with-low-ratios rule, this thread was just suggesting one. And judging by HongFire's reaction (see page 1,) such a rule isn't likely to be implemented. So don't worry too much about being banned, just worry about other people not meing to happy about your ratio.

[Soran]

Relax, everyone. There isn't any ban-people-with-low-ratios rule, this thread was just suggesting one. And judging by HongFire's reaction (see page 1,) such a rule isn't likely to be implemented. So don't worry too much about being banned, just worry about other people not meing to happy about your ratio.I'm relaxed regarding banning ( note orange color ),
it's a bit frustrating though that someone might think that i'm leecher
( what i'm definitely not )
seeing my stats in some other thread

[AnimeJanai]

Let's rationalize excuses on why we should not upload.

There are people who say it is too hard to seed so they don't. However, they continue to download other torrents. If someone doesn't have the time to upload, they shouldn't have the time to watch anime or download either.

Giving excuses is just that. Anyone can use that same logic about not wanting to pay the price so just walk out the supermarket with the item. The cost of the superleeched item will be paid for by the other customers who upload money to the store.

A superleecher doesn't suck from the anonymous ether. There are no magic bytes. He sucks those bytes out of the other users. There is yet another penalty that is subtle that a lot of superleechers do not want you to think about. That is the case where a superleecher sucks most of the bytes with their fast download from a seeder. If the seeder is not using superseeding, then the seeder's client has the tendency to upload most of his seeding to the two or three users in the seeder's Swarm who are fastest at downloading and who are connected to the Seeder. This creates an artificial "black hole" in seeding if the superleecher then runs away to download from a different torrent.

The other thing that superleechers do is download from more than one torrent at a time to use up their download bandwidth. Of course, their upload bandwidth is split across those multiple torrents, making their upload even more slow. That sucks too.

[Hiroshi]

Hi all,
I must agree with AnimeJanai. There is no reason over the long term
to have a ratio less than 1. A hidden cost is that seeders get angry
when they find they have to use their bandwidth (which they must pay
for remember!) to subsidize people who won't upload and they
disappear. If you want material to stay on the site upload at least
as much as you download. If your bandwidth is limited, limit your
downloads! If you want more downloading, buy more bandwidth!
It is as simple as that whatever HongFire does with this site.
By the way, if my statistics still display super good (like a ratio of 8!)
ignore them, they are wrong (I hope HongFire can fix this at some
point, it's embarassing!). I will however always upload to at least 1 and
always try for over 2. If I have to stop I will come back later to continue.
Oh, yes, I forgot. A really good person will check back periodically while
the stuff is on their drives to see if what they downloaded needs seeding!
Cheers,
Hiroshi

[porsatan]

I think we should not consider only ratio if you gonna ban someone.
But also they total UL and DL of data. Just like the other said, sometime ratio value doesn't make sense at all.

One question please.
If i leeching from this site without log-in, my statistic won't be recorded right? So, if i'm done leeaching and logged-in. Then i'm start seeding...... what about that?

I'm asking this because i notice almost everyone has ratio um... exaggerate? (You cannot seed something when you're not leech something?)
I'm not going to flame someone about this. I just doubt.... Can anyone answer me?

[Marcos]

@porsatan
--------
Actualy, my statistics in particular are of no fault of the system (well actualy I think I have seeded even a bit more then this). My case was a bit unique though. I came here and downloaded all the torrents as a guest then the network went private while I was downloading, so I couldn't sign up. So now that all my downloads finished (4.32GB btw), I am seeding them all out, because just about everyone has no seeders and a large amount of leechers.

My actual UP:Dl ratio averages out in BitComet to: 3.1/1 (3mb uploaded for mb downloaded). I guess thats a lot more off then anticipated, but I was seeding since my downloads finished, not since I became a member...
--------
As I stated earlier, I don't think it's really proper to take action against the people who sign up and have bad ratios (at least make sure the system of recording is working properly first). The only realistic way to get better ratios out of files is to either force seeding (how are you going to do that?) or privatize the community (an equaly detested prospect, i'm sure).

[Lordofevilcr]

I don't think there's a big problem, most torrents are seeded quite long. I notice quite some people helping me out without asking when my torrents are dead. Why make rules when it's going well? I think the community is good enough we're helping eachother aren't we? So a few leechers isn't such a problem. They might become seeders when they feel guilty :p. (at least that's how it started for me a few months ago :))

[venger]

Well some of our ratio wasn't even updated. Then it would be rather unfair to banned us..I have loaded at least 20Gb of data in the past week, but my stats are still stuck at 11Gb. But i do agree, there are heavy leechers that steals the bandwith...but heck, we are here to share rite?
^_^

[chief977]

I seed whatever i download, as long as I can until the uploads are at 0.

[BOiNG!]

I'll say do what Empornium does. Help seed, maintain good ratio. If failed to do so within time limit (days/weeks/month/etc.), then users will either be warned/banned, depending on how severe (gotta scare them) It works, most torrents there have an average of 20-40+ seeders. Maybe exception can be given to some users who prove themselves to be helpful in other ways. To those who complain their stats don't update; it'll only update after u close the bittorent client. Me thinks there's a thread somewhere here, explaining how it works.

[Crys]

I think we should also take into acccount people who upload torrents locally, but then never seed them. Nearly 10 % of the torrents I see uploaded hardly have a seed around. Don't upload something and then tell everybody "Hey, I'm signing off for the night! I'll seed this TOMORROW". People around here have problems keeping their own torrents seeded. A lot of torrents die after a week or two, and NOBODY bothers to seed. That's why my games are still seeded: because I seed if I need to.

And yeah, the download/upload stats are SLOW to load. I've got 9 gigs of upload pending, but the site still sees fit to log my download habits. :mad:

People need to stop complaining about the "ratio not making any sense". If you've downloaded 1 MB and seeded 1 kB, we'll understand why you only have a ratio of .001. We mean if you've downloaded 10 gigs and only seeded for 1 gig, giving you a whopping grand total of .1 seed ratio. Sure, a FEW people have problems uploading; it really makes a difference as to whom you're connected to, but this shouldn't be a problem ALL THE TIME.

[lm2k]

Yes when someone's ratio is very low then we will do something about it. Ban their account/IP for few days weeks month. But some people maybe just have slow connections and if their ratio is bad but they are supporting the community in other way then it's still ok. Don't worry we are watching it.

What you guys can do to prevent ppl just leech and run is when you see someone with bad ratio requesting stuff you can just ingorne them and only help the memebers that helped the community as well.

I think that ratios are wrong. I, myself have download at least 3 or 4 x more than it shows on my profile and uploaded also much more. In fact due to the slow speeds I think i've upload as much as I downloaded.

How are the dl and ul ratios counted anyway? How does the tracker knows its me downloading/uploading?

[orka]

Whew, this thread is heating up...

[Nekojin42]

I don''t know if my ratio is right or not, but it doesn't seem right... I usually leave my Torrents running at least until I'm in the green (Better than 1.0 ratio) before killing them.

Edit:

To those who complain their stats don't update; it'll only update after u close the bittorent client. Me thinks there's a thread somewhere here, explaining how it works.

What happens if the system crashes, or otherwise gets wonky? I know that occasionally when I'm running BitTornado, it'll just make my connection stop dead in its tracks - all ports, all access across the board, and nothing short of a reboot will get my connection going again.

[fk0]

i'm probably in one of the worst condition because my upload speed it's only 1/5 od the download speed but i can't do nothing by living here (nothing available);
the only thing i can do and i do periodically are donations.....
sorry.

[AyanamiRei]

yeah, alot of broadband connections are vastly assymetrical. maybe there should be a special request forum for old unseeded torrents, that i can do although not 24hrs a day, maybe in 8 hr shifts

[Anaksulnamun]

Hmm ,yes I hate that kind of superleecher .That the time when I see my torrent is uploading at most (60 KBs ) and download at least 5Kbs :mad: .Hmm ,I wonder should I build a list of IPs should be banned and post here :mad:

[lm2k]

Hmm ,yes I hate that kind of superleecher .That the time when I see my torrent is uploading at most (60 KBs ) and download at least 5Kbs :mad: .Hmm ,I wonder should I build a list of IPs should be banned and post here :mad:

That happens to me all the time.

Thats why I think my stats are wrong. I bet I've upload at least as much as I downloaded.

[Lordofevilcr]

My ratio is also completely wrong, I downloaded 200GB and uploaded a few gigs more than that until now. But my stats aren't even near to that.

[Taishi]

Talk about wrong ratios =)
then look at me .... muhahahah you shoudl ban me at place cuz it shows i didnt do nothing cept chating on forums... i think thats kinda wrong =)

[DrWise]

Well, anyway if you guys use Azureus or BitComet, you can track the superleecher s' IP and add his IP to your IP filter list. I know that the bastard still can dl your torrent, but we all do the same, he will be forced to leech for a long time (=up more before running away).

[Soran]

i'm probably in one of the worst condition because my upload speed it's only 1/5 od the download speed but i can't do nothing by living here (nothing available);
the only thing i can do and i do periodically are donations.....
sorry.Sorry, but it's not just you.
I guess the most people here have ADSL, i.e. 768/128 ( ratio 6:1 ), 3072/384 ( ratio 8:1 ), etc.
If everyone would try to use up the download bandwidth, no one would be able to download anything.
The most of the time i run Bittorrent client, i do not download anything, but "pay" back for the past downloads.
In spite of 768/128 i always keep my ratio at over 1, mostly 1.3+
( currently over 2.0;
because i had to upload more to get rid of red color ... )

[BOiNG!]

Talk about wrong ratios =)
then look at me .... muhahahah you shoudl ban me at place cuz it shows i didnt do nothing cept chating on forums... i think thats kinda wrong =)
U just joined, it'll take some time to update the stats, so sit tight & wait.

[NeoHunter008]

I agree with the topic here, and feel if you leach, you should at least TRY to help out with the seeding. Its not that difficult to leave the bit-torrent window open you know ^_^;

I use the basic BT client, and have been downloading like mad, but also uploading as well. I'm trying my best to keep the ratio of my downloads lower then my uploads though. My ratio probably sucks, but bear with me for now XD

I can't really say I do much, I just do what I can, and I even attempt to contribute torrents of my own, but since I lack in Japanese games, its kinda tough. I just tend to leave ALOT of finished torrent windows open, and looking now, I have about 23 open windows, allowing others to get the files. I can't do this for all the stuff on Hongfire, but I can at least try to not be a "uber leach".

I only have one question. Once I upload the torrent to Hongfire locally, is there anyway to run a 24/7 seed from my PC, or does it automatically do that for me?

I ask because, I saw the comment about torrents that have no seed, and am worried that I might be uploading files, but not doing anything beyond that point. If I need to seed it, I will, just tell me how.

[saeco]

Im using Azureus ... how to seed etc ? Anywhere to read this things ?

[DaMaGeDiGiTl]

It seems to me some stats are not updating still. Not everyone is a leech some contribute in other ways. Honestly I'm always seeding because I have a decent connection, however my stats don't seem to be updating, before banning I suggest making sure the person is intentionally leeching, and that it is not a slow connection or a stat update problem. I've been seeding Dragon K and the Shining Tears torrent for a long time yet my stats still are not great :( For now I will just seed until my new HD gets here then I plan on doing alot of uploading :) This is such a cool comunity, so my two cents for what it's worth is give to the community in whatever way possible, and be careful before suggesting people get the ban because there may be other issues at hand. Thank-you!!! :)

[vulkan]

I try to keep my torrents opened for seeding until the bytes amount for uploading reaches the 200% of the downloaded bytes, and sometimes I go over 200%.
It happens sometime that I reach the goal in the same evening (I use the PC only when I'm at home), other times I must keep the file in seeding for three-four days.

[Soran]

Im using Azureus ... how to seed etc ? Anywhere to read this things ?It's very easy, you seed automatically after you downloaded 100%
and the torrent disappears from the top window and appears in the bottom window.
You seed as long you don't click "Stop", even if you exit Azureus ( stop the application ) & open it later
you start to seed it again ( automatically )

[DaMaGeDiGiTl]

ya that's what rules about Azureus, it is so simple :)

[Red-X]

I try to seed at least all of what I've downloaded, sometimes even double or tripple that amount. I'm still new here, so it will take a while for me to have a good ratio.

[Gasoline]

Yup...I'm also seeding or atleast uploading what I am downloading. Im currently using this "Shareaza" software. I don't know if it'll help much in future seeding or uploading, but one thing's for sure... i couldn't find any accelerator to speed up the downloads, so I also couldn't really seed for anything yet... I'm only at the uploading state. And that makes everything even slower. =( So people...please seed a little bit.

[Yumyai]

Seems like everybody blame about leecher and pay a lot of attention to it but how about looking this way



If there's no leecher , where'd you upload to ? . If you can't upload , how'd you get a ratio. . U need someone to leech from you.

that's a weak point of bittorrent , i assume. Thinking about tree diagram. and a seeder as a root . everyone can upload eventually until the top of the branch ( no one to upload too.)


Brighter light = Darker Shadow . More upload for one person = More download for one person. There's no bonus for uploading @ 0 kB.

to me , ratio isn't THAT important . The real important factor is to SHARE a file (especially a rare one , hehe) . As long as he/she share a good file ,it'll be ok




btw. i'm not making a excuse for myself . At this time i'm trying to figure out how the hell to get winny work well and fast and i'll make some torrent soon.

[tzuendaniel]

I know that the seeders would at least want the leechers to help seed, but sometimes it isn't convinient for the leechers to help seed, like someone else needs to use the computer or something. At least, for my old computer, it would freeze after 4 hours or so. I'd leave it on all the time DLing and ULing, and now it doesn't really work well anymore...so I wrecked it, in a way...although it had less than ideal RAM to begin with...

While ratio banning might work, it would just prevent them from uploading even their tiny share to the rest of the leeachers. If their ratio is seriously bad, like...um...maybe less than 0.1, then we should probably take some sort of action.

[BlueHige]

I'm agree with banning low low ratio (<0.2 or something else ) but remember that there are somes problem on the counter, i've uploaded around 1.3 gb and only 200 mb show up. And i'm not the only one.

[winterzero]

just curious...
whenever i download a torrent my upload/download speed are both set at 15kbps.
50% of the time my average download speed is about 8-10kbps and upload is always 13-15kbps.
the share ratio of each download i get is around 1.5-2.0+, and i've download 5 games already. so how come my upload, download and ratio in the members list is not even above 1 gig?

[Kitee]

well.. i believe the counter is just a rough estimate of how much a person has downloaded and uploaded..
it doesn't really matter what the ratio is.. and that the counter doesn't work
as long as ppl do actually help seed.. and not just say that they helped seed but didn't record it down out of the blue

[Dark_Sonic]

If stats were always count for everyone, I wouldn't mind banning leechers. But since Azureus has crashed many times in past few days, even my stats are inaccurate. But still I seed 3-40... It depends how big the file is.

[kakunou]

Can something be done about members with very low ratios?
Yes. Give me their addresses, a case of sake, and my favorite training 竹刀.

Or there's always the boring way, ban the constant and obvious abusers like everyone else as echoed.

so how come my upload, download and ratio in the members list is not even above 1 gig?

remember that there are somes problem on the counter...And i'm not the only one.

[BlueHige]

so just keep uploading, untill we (hongfire community) become as thoses community that have tons of torrent unseed, all will be alright.
That's the point ?

[winterzero]

well i dont understand how the stats for download/upload works....

1>here does the information on how much you down/upload come from?

2>is it possible that information coming from a computer (ie. down/upload ratio) are blocked by firewalls?

3>does the upload stat only goes up when you finish a file or even while you're downloading?

[BlueHige]

stats only improve when u stop your bittorrent client, but i've stopped it many times ans i saw any improve.

[Taishi]

Well i got good =) my darn iternet connection is working other way around... it kinda sends 2x as meny im downloading and i cant help it ^^ (tho it goes only 25kb/s max)

[bls1946]

I have to take exception to the issue of low ratios. Maybe you get credit for every mb you seed or upload, but I don't. Then again I don't always get credited with what I have leeched. I leeched a set of 11 files almost a month ago and they are all seeding at this time. When Azureus came out with 2.2.0.0 I updated to it and thus lost previous upload counts for seeded files. When I addup the curent upload counts to 10 of the files it comes close to what the tracker says I have uploaded. What doesn't seem to be reflected is the seeding of HE 25 Azasuke Wind with the client showing a ratio of 2.9 and 2.22 GB uploaded.

I am seeding 80+ GB and leeching 3 files totaling 10 GB. Azureus is set to permit a maximum of 15kb/s uploading, which it does 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Another site has blocked me from leeching. There server has more problems than this one, but they have instituted a low ratio policy. My client shows I have been seeding captain herlock for their site with a ratio of 2.1 and uploade 6.18 GB yet they have given me 1880 mb upload credit.

I have nothing against a low ratio policy as long as the values that are being used reflect reality. I am currently not leeching from this site, but you can go right ahead and tell me that I am not supporting this site because of my low ratio.

[Ta-kun]

I don't know if I'm right, but the explanation for the wrong ratios (like 717 MB of hentai were enough for one person :p) seems rather simple. I usually start downloading torrents from hongfire at night. After a while, I mostly switch off my computer and go to bed. The next day, when I start Azureus again and continue downloading/seeding, the tracker can impossibly know that the new IP belongs to me unless I logged in here before, so the displayed ratio is pretty pointless. I'm actually a bit surprised that my ratio isn't lower as downloading is usually much faster (i.e. with less different IP's) than seeding with my ADSL connection.

[Kitee]

I don't know if I'm right, but the explanation for the wrong ratios (like 717 MB of hentai were enough for one person :p) seems rather simple. I usually start downloading torrents from hongfire at night. After a while, I mostly switch off my computer and go to bed. The next day, when I start Azureus again and continue downloading/seeding, the tracker can impossibly know that the new IP belongs to me unless I logged in here before, so the displayed ratio is pretty pointless. I'm actually a bit surprised that my ratio isn't lower as downloading is usually much faster (i.e. with less different IP's) than seeding with my ADSL connection.

what you say is true too, but i also have a ADSL connection and does the exactly same thing as you do sometimes. but my ip address doesn't change as frequently as yours as mines change once every week. you could say that the counter didn't count anything because your ip address changed. but if that really happens, then that means both your UL and DL won't be recorded instead of just the DL counted that everyone keeps on saying. unless if you seed a file at night, stop, and seed again during the morning.

[Sir_kupid]

Hmm I put my UL/DL speed all on unlimited on Azureus..
DL speed : 350 kB/s +
UL speed : 55 kB/s +

Is their any way that I could probably increase my UL speed..?

[BOiNG!]

Thread Title: Can something be done about members with very low ratios?
This thread is REALLY going off-topic. I'm outta here.
**BOiNG! hops to the nearest exit**

[jsnut]

Hmm I put my UL/DL speed all on unlimited on Azureus..
DL speed : 350 kB/s +
UL speed : 55 kB/s +

Is their any way that I could probably increase my UL speed..?
If 55 kB/s is the limit of your connection, then there's no way to increase it except switching to ISP that offers faster speed.

[Sir_kupid]

If 55 kB/s is the limit of your connection, then there's no way to increase it except switching to ISP that offers faster speed.

Ohh I see.... Thanx for the advice yo..

[TheException]

i personnaly think that ppl who seed more should have advantages. it makes sense considering that it is the way life works in all the other areas. however, some ppl just don't have much of a choice (ie bad connection, etc) so maybe a way to improve things would be to give differents ranks to ppl (it doesn't have to state ur rank under your picture) and the people with higher rank ( = the people who help the torrents sharing the most) can get more advantages in the torrent section (say increase their max speed or somthing along those line).
maybe having a minimum ratio could help too, though it shouldn't be too high to account for ppl who don't have a choice. but if action needs be taken then hongfire should also restrict the number of username that one can create with one IP adress ( that is, if it is not already implemented), because otherwise ppl can just creat new usernames all the time. also. ppl should sign up before they can downlod a certain amount. a good way to regulate this would be to record the stats of IP adresses without a username and after the person exceeds a certain amount of download, restrict him from further donmloading until a username is created.
i hope ppl can understand me. i'm just trying to be objective since i do not download too often.
and of course i am open to suggestion, remarks, critics, insults or whatever u think of what i have written so far.

[syia]

The advantage of having a high share ratio is the peace of mind. You won't be guilt'ed as a leecher and be looked down by some of the omnious members here. Your request are also likely to be full filled, too. There is only good things to come when you see the green light and that means you can Pass Go. ;)

[Ta-kun]

but if action needs be taken then hongfire should also restrict the number of username that one can create with one IP adress ( that is, if it is not already implemented), because otherwise ppl can just creat new usernames all the time.This would bring more problems than advantages, because most DSL users have dynamic IPs, so banning them would be useless and can affect innocent users of the same ISP. The other ones could just use a proxy to register again.

also. ppl should sign up before they can downlod a certain amount. a good way to regulate this would be to record the stats of IP adresses without a username and after the person exceeds a certain amount of download, restrict him from further donmloading until a username is created.
Not a bad idea, but the tracker cannot decide the amount of data someone downloads from the other peers.
Anyway, I don't think we need to change anything, the system already works quite good. And to the ones complaining about leechers "stealing" their bandwidth: taking something you give away voluntarily isn't theft. They are just ungrateful.

[TheException]

ta-kun, you're probably right. i also believe it the way it is now is great. i only proposed those ideas because i felt some ppl unhappy with the system.
i really don't care about ppl's ratio but apparently some people use it to their advantage by dissing ppl with lower ratios. it's makes no sense to me because ppl choose or not to seed. it's like dissing unemployed and retired ppl because they receive a compensation even though they don't "work" for it. i mean if u are jealous then u can just quit your job and u'll receive that compensation too.
on the other hand i understand ppl getting mad because they feel exploited or abused by the certain members who selfishly leech w/o even seeding 1mb. no one likes being taken advantage of.
but selfishness is human nature, nothing to complain about. everyon is selfish to some extent.
so i guess nothing can be done about this problem because its essence lies into human nature rather than inapropriate website rules.

[brakespear]

....and with the stats not updating for everybody correctly at the moment, what would be the point of dissing someone who may have a low ratio but may have uploaded more than it appears?

[Kitee]

....and with the stats not updating for everybody correctly at the moment, what would be the point of dissing someone who may have a low ratio but may have uploaded more than it appears?

actually, i haven't seen anyone dissing members with a low ratio, they just complained. and complaints are just complaints, no one takes actions for them. that's why there are so many leechers right now. i don't actually really care if a member seeds or not, it's their decision to make. if they think that taking something without giving anything back is not a guilt, then by all means just do it. i don't see the point to force them to seed as they probably won't if they haven't done so already

[starscalling]

wow
yall are some tolerant buggers ^_^
how about what i think:
if u want the file that bad.. then dont you think the next person does too?
if your just gonna be an evil leecher then use another protocol
like shareaza or emule or ****ing something!!
the point of torrenting is that you share pieces of the file before its done and not sharing is defeating that purpose
and sure i dont feel the need to keep my ratio at 4... [the original designed ratio]
neither do i feel the need to keep my ratio at .04
i get about 384kb up and 3-4mb down.. yes that is a big difference and sure ill dl in a hurry and let it go at 2-300 kB at times but! i give back and never ever leach from a torrent that has few seeds!! or peers for that matter !!! its not healthy for the torrent!
i use more than one program for dling and i use them at the same time
and in fact the thing that prevents me from dling more:
1. price of dvd's
2. total bandwidth
all that without becoming a evil leecher
so! no excuses! install another program to dl with on top of bt!
and if u just gotta not seed, then make sure you regulate how fast you dl!
keep the torrents alive!

[brakespear]

actually, i haven't seen anyone dissing members with a low ratio, they just complained. and complaints are just complaints, no one takes actions for them. that's why there are so many leechers right now. i don't actually really care if a member seeds or not, it's their decision to make. if they think that taking something without giving anything back is not a guilt, then by all means just do it. i don't see the point to force them to seed as they probably won't if they haven't done so already

All I meant was that you can't know 100% if someone is a leecher or not from their stats at present :)

I agree with your point about not being able to force people to seed but it'd be nice if think people are considerate enough to help out a little - you know, just a bit of community spirit or something.

[Akari Kanzaki]

All I meant was that you can't know 100% if someone is a leecher or not from their stats at present :)

I agree with your point about not being able to force people to seed but it'd be nice if think people are considerate enough to help out a little - you know, just a bit of community spirit or something.

I think yes, beceause a lot of the junior members have less than 1:1 ratio

[Cyris_Jones]

although there is a ***** about seeding, my ratio should be alot higher, i seeded one torrent all night, enough to make it at least 5-6 times, yet it didnt show up on my ratio...

the other problem is large files. i normally download anime series in large sets rather than episode by episode. while its downloading, it barely uploads at all, for me to take two days to download a series or longer, i cant afford to upload for two days or more, i dont have that much bandwifth and i pay out the ass for it. but i do try to seed at least 1/2 to a full share, sometimes it just isnt possible though. right now im seeding a file that 1/2 a gig and its uploading at half the speed it downloaded....

im sure you get my point, some people try to seed, but its a bit hard with some connections or files... it really all depends.

[nnadia]

Well, as you can see my ratio is low too. not that i want it to be low but what can i do when my upload is severely capped by my ISP.

1. Max upload of 15kbps
2. above 10kbps upload and i cant do anything else right(surfing net, playing games cant be done due to the really bad lag)

Moreever the files i d/l is also not small either so no matter what i do its kinda hard to maintain a good ratio. I sometimes leave my comp on a day to just seed torrent but it aint helping. I hope you guys understand that not all people with low ratio chose not to seed but rather unable to do so. but of course sometimes when i see people asking for a reseed i try to help them and also sharing my medium file size of media :D

[Cyris_Jones]

i cant figure why my upload is being so damn slow it uploading 6-7 kbps, i've been uploading a 457 meg files for 3 hours and its only uploaded 267 megs. >< how am i suppose to get my ratio up when i have to deal with this crap, im only seeding one file and im not even leeching anything right now.

[sleighand]

I agree that ppl who have a very low ratio should understand that they are hurting this community and need to do something about it. Perhaps contribute in other ways to offset that. :rolleyes:

[Cyris_Jones]

I agree that ppl who have a very low ratio should understand that they are hurting this community and need to do something about it. Perhaps contribute in other ways to offset that. :rolleyes:

ok, give some suggestions on how else we can contribute, i cant force my ratio to go up, i can only upload so much at a time. plus my ratio isnt correct anyway, it should be higher, if you look around there are thread about bugs with the trckers and people's ratio's dropping because they arent getting all the credit they deserve.

[NeoHunter008]

Far too many people are just getting stuff and leaving. I'm still rather new here, and my ratio doesn't lie. It's not rising at the moment, because I'm backing old files up, and removing them from my drive.

New members need to realize that, you can't just leech and not share.

[NezzoX]

Well, what would the world be like without the leechers? Someone have to leech for you to get more ratio. Think about that.

[NeoHunter008]

I did, but they could also get ratio by seeding a finished download just the same. It works both ways, and no offense, but the concept here is, you want, you have to give. I don't mean if your 2 days in, but after about 7 days, you should be seeding somthing, regardless if its your own file, or one you downloaded and finished.

[maohayato]

even with an extremely capped upload or dial-up, people should seed for a couple of days. that way they can get their ratio up.

so a low upload cap is no excuse for not seeding.

[NezzoX]

I did, but they could also get ratio by seeding a finished download just the same. It works both ways, and no offense, but the concept here is, you want, you have to give. I don't mean if your 2 days in, but after about 7 days, you should be seeding somthing, regardless if its your own file, or one you downloaded and finished.

Well, I am not one of them "shameless leechers" but I still think they also fill a purpose. I download stuff very very fast on my internet connection. And to get the ratio up after each download I need about 50-60 leechers. If there will be to many seeders they will steal seeding bandwidh from you.

This is not only on HongFire. On every site that I have to keep track of my ratio I want many leechers sacrificing their own ratio just to feed mine.

[Kitee]

ok, give some suggestions on how else we can contribute, i cant force my ratio to go up, i can only upload so much at a time. plus my ratio isnt correct anyway, it should be higher, if you look around there are thread about bugs with the trckers and people's ratio's dropping because they arent getting all the credit they deserve.

i think what the that person suggests is to donate.
i don't see any other options that can contribute to the community except:
seed
take requests
donate
help out in forums

[Kitee]

Well, I am not one of them "shameless leechers" but I still think they also fill a purpose. I download stuff very very fast on my internet connection. And to get the ratio up after each download I need about 50-60 leechers. If there will be to many seeders they will steal seeding bandwidh from you.

This is not only on HongFire. On every site that I have to keep track of my ratio I want many leechers sacrificing their own ratio just to feed mine.

that is sure a new idea no one has thought of.
you're totally right on this and there is nothing i can do to argue with that. but the thing is, as long as the seeders count is lower than the leechers, there will be a very high chance that you'll be uploading a lot. but if the seed is more than the leeches, i don't see any point in helping that torrent out as it can survive on its own. and i get what you're saying, need leechers to balance out the seeders.

[Soran]

If all torrents would be seeded as long as there are people who need this stuff,
no one would care about ( low ) ratios.
You start to think about evil leechers only in 2 cases:

1. No one seeds something you need,
for example:
You want to download this anime/game/artbook/etc. but no seeders there,
so you have to beg for seeding, and if you have luck, someone helps you out.

2. No one seeds something that other people need,
for example:
You open your bittorrent client and see that few torrents have some leechers, but yet again 0 seeders.
And if you have only 768/128 adsl ( the one i still have :/ ) ... honestly, you shouldn't run any other file sharing program,
if you seed 4 torrents. So if you decide to help these people,
you can't download something you wanted from some other file sharing network.

Yes, it's easier to keep an "uber" ratio if the most people have low ratios,
but i don't think anyone here would say, that his/her own high ratio is more important
than the better chances for everyone to download the stuff.

[starscalling]

you almost got it there
i complain about ebil leechers when i got slow speeds too
or when i see ppl constantly with a low ratio
because even if its a good one
there is many more things that these ppl could get if they had some of that bandwidth free the limiting factor being i ul to dl

[Nephillim]

Well, I am not one of them "shameless leechers" but I still think they also fill a purpose. I download stuff very very fast on my internet connection. And to get the ratio up after each download I need about 50-60 leechers. If there will be to many seeders they will steal seeding bandwidh from you.

This is not only on HongFire. On every site that I have to keep track of my ratio I want many leechers sacrificing their own ratio just to feed mine.

True, but if they leave upon completion, people can't finish up their downloads. So what if you have fast downloading times? It won't matter if everyone hits and runs, because at the end of the day, its the COMPLETION that counts, not speed.

And to everyone else, remember that its much harder to maintain good ratios when you've leached in large amounts. Furthermore, ISPs capping uploads (especially for cable modem users. I've a friend who downloads at 143kbps, but uploads........ 3kbps) are not helping the situation much.

[crystalnox]

But people with ow ratios can concentrate only on seeding and I'm sure their ratio would go up. But Nephillim, you said you had a friend whos upload rate is 3kbps?? Must well switch to dial-up, cheaper.
Note: If your upload rate is very slow, try limiting to only two seeds, makes the speed more stable sometimes.

[BlueHige]

Crystalnox, for what i'm concerned, i try to upload more than i can ( actually seeding Digital devil saga ) and because my upload rate is very slow, i try to reach 1:1 ratio by seeding around 2 weeks, more than that, if sometimes the tracker doesn't register the rate that u reached, that's why there's memeber with low ratio ,i'm not saying that leechers don't exist, but only that low ratio members aren't ONLY leechers .

[holyhaze]

with my speed... my life suck...

[Broken Sword]

Sorry, I think it is better to improve the problem of getting the upload and download stats accurate first before getting into the topic like this. According to my stats i am a shameless leccher, in this does not reflect at all. Although i have a low upload speed (15Kb/s), i still manage to upload a file which is 2.0Gb by leaving my computer on for six straight days per week. With soaring oil prize the electricity bill is huge. Then what i get, inaccurate stats and threads like this. :mad:

[Nephillim]

Actually, the recording's are based on a few factors:

1) You must use a recognised BT client
2) You must be logged into Hongfire (a cookie must be saved in your computer)
3) You're running a single torrent from Hongfire. Only the first torrent's counted. The rest are ignored.
4) You must be running a LOCAL torrent. Remote ones don't count

I don't think the stats don't record if u've done the above.

And in reply to Crystalnox, that Cable package (I think its 3mbps down) IS dirt cheap (on par or a little more expensive than a 512 down/256 up kbps unlimited package over here), so I guess he can't complain. He DOES get annoyed at being banned from many trackers though :P

[Broken Sword]

Soka, ehh what are the recognised BT client?

[Nephillim]

I only know that these clients are recognised, not too sure about the rest

1) Bittornado
2) Azureus
3) ABC
4) TorrentStorm
5) BitComet
6) Shadow's Experimental

I recommend Azureus for seeding, as it seems to make the most of my upload speed quickly. Use Bittornado for leeching :D

[Broken Sword]

Thanks but according to your post at 6.03 pm
1) check
2) check
3) check.
4) check

what is wrong.......sigh........maybe i should leave the community.
well maybe i should not use the norton cleansweep and switch off my firewall

[Nephillim]

Sorry I couldn't be of help *bows head*

Could it be your firewall? I'm not sure.......

[NezzoX]

True, but if they leave upon completion, people can't finish up their downloads. So what if you have fast downloading times? It won't matter if everyone hits and runs, because at the end of the day, its the COMPLETION that counts, not speed.

And to everyone else, remember that its much harder to maintain good ratios when you've leached in large amounts. Furthermore, ISPs capping uploads (especially for cable modem users. I've a friend who downloads at 143kbps, but uploads........ 3kbps) are not helping the situation much.

Well, not everyone can be a leecher. Any idiot knows that. But still, I think that the balance will be messed up without leechers. If everyone is a seeder you will sooner or later find yourself in the position of not beeing able to get more ratio because there is no one that is willing to leech.

I mean, just think about it for a while... leechers are needed to feed our need for more than a 1:1 ratio on each torrent.

[Soran]

I mean, just think about it for a while... leechers are needed to feed our need for more than a 1:1 ratio on each torrent.Why do you need this 1:1 ratio?
No one would complain or look down on the people with low ratios,
if there would be a real seeding competition and it would be hard to find a torrent with leechers + no seeders
( or many leechers + few seeders ),
because then people with slow upload really couldn't do much about their ratios

[NezzoX]

Why do you need this 1:1 ratio?
No one would complain or look down on the people with low ratios,
if there would be a real seeding competition and it would be hard to find a torrent with leechers + no seeders
( or many leechers + few seeders ),
because then people with slow upload really couldn't do much about their ratios

Just common sense. If you download 500meg for example, upload at least the same amount just to keep the torrent alive. But for that to work in the long run you do need leechers, just that I am not going to be one of them.

[Soran]

Just common sense. If you download 500meg for example, upload at least the same amount just to keep the torrent alive. But for that to work in the long run you do need leechers, just that I am not going to be one of them.My question is not why it is good to seed 1:1 under current / "normal" circumstances,
but why would it be bad if the circumstances would be different,
i.e. no need to seed 1:1, because everyone is more interested in seeding than leeching?

It's like saying that poverty is good because it gives you an opportunity for charity :rolleyes:

[ot4ku]

nice ^^" so i think i will be banned :/ i will share files but at the moment i have a great problem with my provider, and the good news.. (i know its very not important what i write) i become a flat-rate without UP/Downlimit next month.
Than for me absolutley normal to seed files if they are finished, because i have no handicap if i upload, but at the moment its 1. very slow (12 kb/s) 2. limited :/

So thanks to all seeders out there! its great that people share files with other... i dont know how else i should come to so nice files.
If i lived in germany, than would be all better :/ faster, and better internet and mutch cheeper.. (life in austria, very expensiv internet)

[srea]

Sometimes the stat's not surely correct.
Don't trust it too much...

[NezzoX]

My question is not why it is good to seed 1:1 under current / "normal" circumstances,
but why would it be bad if the circumstances would be different,
i.e. no need to seed 1:1, because everyone is more interested in seeding than leeching?

It's like saying that poverty is good because it gives you an opportunity for charity :rolleyes:

Dont compare filesharing with poverty and charity. It is not really the same thing. And if you really want to have that as an example think about the fact that everone can not be rich. If everyone had lots and lots of money the value of the money would crash completly and a bottle of milk would cost like 45dollars.

In every hierarchy there must be people that reside on the bottom of the community. Its these persons that really is the foundation of the whole system. You must have all parts for the arrangement to work.

[Zhenn Rodus]

I just try my best to hover between +/- 0.1 of 1 ^_^

[Cyris_Jones]

i think what the that person suggests is to donate.
i don't see any other options that can contribute to the community except:
seed
take requests
donate
help out in forums

i do most of that, i cant afford to donate money, i seed as much as possible, but this computer cant be used for seeding a couple days like someone suggested... it is also used for work, my boyfriend is a coder and uses the computer, i can only download/seed at night. ive helped with requests and answered questions in the forum. so you see... people with lower ratios, mines .62 right now i believe, arent always shameless leechers, we try, but sometimes you can only do so much.

[knobi]

Myself was a hardcore leecher, but i

[Soran]

Dont compare filesharing with poverty and charity. It is not really the same thing. And if you really want to have that as an example think about the fact that everone can not be rich. If everyone had lots and lots of money the value of the money would crash completly and a bottle of milk would cost like 45dollars.

In every hierarchy there must be people that reside on the bottom of the community. Its these persons that really is the foundation of the whole system. You must have all parts for the arrangement to work.I didn't say that missing seeders or too few seeders is exaclty the same as poverty in RL.
What i meant was some kind of neediness in general.
Neediness that could be avoided.
I'm sure, the rating system ( even with all its problems ) helps a lot,
an improved rating system would reduce the number of people who leech & run even more.

Can everyone be rich? It's up to how you define "rich".
I'm talking about being "poor", and this is just the situation where you ask for help,
or other people see that you need help and help you.
It's similar in RL and here, for example you can see that there are leechers but no seeders,
and you start seeding.

Sure there always will be people who have less ( not as "rich" as others ),
but i would prefer that our members with low ratios would be the "losers" in "seeding competition",
rather than these who just download & run.

I doubt that it is neccessary for the system, that some people are really poor.
It would not harm the bittorrent community, if every member would be willing to keep the ratio 1:1
( even if it means that he has to cut 1/2 of download, because he had a volume tarif ,
and seed at least 1/2 of the time, he used to download,
say it took you 2 days to download a game ---> seed at least 1 day,
except your real ratio is very high already, and there are many seeders for this game )

It would not harm the bittorrent community, if the case "many leechers + few seeders",
or "some leechers + no seeders" would be really rare, if people would really do their best to keep torrents alive
( be it becaue they just care about others, or at least because they don't want to have too low ratio )

[GrantM]

Yea, I think seeding is very (perhaps most) important in keeping this kind of community healthy. I personally make sure to seed twice the amount that I download at all time.


Quick question

How do I seed, the FAQ does not have anything about it

[ot4ku]

if you have finished the download of a file, you beginn to seed (upload) data from your complete file to others hwo download the file.
So you are a active part of the downloadspeed for other users.
So its needet that you DONT delet the torrent, and datafile you have downloadet, or move it to a other disc.
As long you keep it as "complete" in your "client" you are a seeder.

Please correct me if im wrong, also my english sucks a bit ^^"

[Kitee]

if you have finished the download of a file, you beginn to seed (upload) data from your complete file to others hwo download the file.
So you are a active part of the downloadspeed for other users.
So its needet that you DONT delet the torrent, and datafile you have downloadet, or move it to a other disc.
As long you keep it as "complete" in your "client" you are a seeder.

Please correct me if im wrong, also my english sucks a bit ^^"
and mostly, DO NOT rename the files, it's just the same as deleting the torrent.

[S&T Kawaii Love]

Unfortunatelly I can't let on my PC for so long. I always try to seed as long as possible. I support the idea of banning super leechers

[Soran]

Unfortunatelly I can't let on my PC for so long. I always try to seed as long as possible. I support the idea of banning super leechersIf you use Azureus, you can seed later again even if you shut down your PC and start it few days later / as long there are leechers
( i guess, it is possible with (some?) other Bittorrent clients too )

[NezzoX]

I didn't say that missing seeders or too few seeders is exaclty the same as poverty in RL.
What i meant was some kind of neediness in general.
Neediness that could be avoided.
I'm sure, the rating system ( even with all its problems ) helps a lot,
an improved rating system would reduce the number of people who leech & run even more.

Can everyone be rich? It's up to how you define "rich".
I'm talking about being "poor", and this is just the situation where you ask for help,
or other people see that you need help and help you.
It's similar in RL and here, for example you can see that there are leechers but no seeders,
and you start seeding.

Sure there always will be people who have less ( not as "rich" as others ),
but i would prefer that our members with low ratios would be the "losers" in "seeding competition",
rather than these who just download & run.

I doubt that it is neccessary for the system, that some people are really poor.
It would not harm the bittorrent community, if every member would be willing to keep the ratio 1:1
( even if it means that he has to cut 1/2 of download, because he had a volume tarif ,
and seed at least 1/2 of the time, he used to download,
say it took you 2 days to download a game ---> seed at least 1 day,
except your real ratio is very high already, and there are many seeders for this game )

It would not harm the bittorrent community, if the case "many leechers + few seeders",
or "some leechers + no seeders" would be really rare, if people would really do their best to keep torrents alive
( be it becaue they just care about others, or at least because they don't want to have too low ratio )


I still belive that it is impossible for everyone to have a 1:1 ratio. If there is eventually 400 seeders and 2 downloaders the seeders will upload in 0.00001kbps. There is no way you can improve your ratio at that speed. (Kind of crude example but it makes my point, yet again...)

But if everyone is looking to punish the leechers, do it like TorrentBits.org. If you have less than a 1:1 ratio you automatically will have a waiting time before you even can begin to download.

[Kitee]

or if you see someone at 90% while the others are at 50%, you can just ban that 90% member's ip for an hour or so, so that the others can catch up. this feature is available in bitcomet, maybe in others too

[Xero Grid]

Sorry, I haven't read every post, but I'm curious as to how accurate the ratios that are next to a persons name are. I mean, I know I have uploaded at least 10 gigs and downloaded at least 6 gigs, but my stats dont reflect that.

Are there certain intervals at which everyones ratios are updated?
Sorry again if this was already said, but I'm still relatively new here.

Peace.

-- Xero Grid --

[Soran]

I still belive that it is impossible for everyone to have a 1:1 ratio. If there is eventually 400 seeders and 2 downloaders the seeders will upload in 0.00001kbps. There is no way you can improve your ratio at that speed. (Kind of crude example but it makes my point, yet again...)

But if everyone is looking to punish the leechers, do it like TorrentBits.org. If you have less than a 1:1 ratio you automatically will have a waiting time before you even can begin to download.I never said, that we should regard low ratios as measure of good & evil forever.

First, as of now it is quite a bad measurement because ( it seems ) not everything is recorded.

Second, once ( if ) records are accurate, we should consider that there could be a bug,
that affects only few people.

Third, IF the balance shifts, and it becomes a bit difficult to upload because of seeding competition,
i will be the first to disagree with judgment of leechers as evil.
Right now it is quite easy to up the ratio.
Well, i do realize that some torrents might ( temporary? ) have more powerful seeders then others,
but still i think as of now, it's quite easy to upload in most cases,
just keep 10 or 20 torrents, check the numbers time to time
( seeders/leechers, not on the site but in bittorrent client, site stats might be not 100% accurate ),
and start the torrent, which has lower seeders:leechers ratio.

[Cyris_Jones]

or if you see someone at 90% while the others are at 50%, you can just ban that 90% member's ip for an hour or so, so that the others can catch up. this feature is available in bitcomet, maybe in others too

now thats just not right, yea it allows everyone elsre to catch up, but what about the person that was so happy they got to 90%, then all of the sudden it stopped, thats just not cool in my book.

[Soran]

Sorry, I haven't read every post, but I'm curious as to how accurate the ratios that are next to a persons name are. I mean, I know I have uploaded at least 10 gigs and downloaded at least 6 gigs, but my stats dont reflect that.

Are there certain intervals at which everyones ratios are updated?
Sorry again if this was already said, but I'm still relatively new here.

Peace.

-- Xero Grid --No, the stats seem to be not accurate.
/edit
check this thread:
http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1042&page=5&pp=10
i made few tests now and i can confirm, that at least with Azureus only 1 torrent's statistics are recorded
( even if restart all uploads, refresh the browser, etc. )

[NezzoX]

now thats just not right, yea it allows everyone elsre to catch up, but what about the person that was so happy they got to 90%, then all of the sudden it stopped, thats just not cool in my book.

Im all with you. If my download would stop just to wait up for other I would kill something. That is just..... just.... evil.

[NezzoX]

I never said, that we should regard low ratios as measure of good & evil forever.

First, as of now it is quite a bad measurement because ( it seems ) not everything is recorded.

Second, once ( if ) records are accurate, we should consider that there could be a bug,
that affects only few people.

Third, IF the balance shifts, and it becomes a bit difficult to upload because of seeding competition,
i will be the first to disagree with judgment of leechers as evil.
Right now it is quite easy to up the ratio.
Well, i do realize that some torrents might ( temporary? ) have more powerful seeders then others,
but still i think as of now, it's quite easy to upload in most cases,
just keep 10 or 20 torrents, check the numbers time to time
( seeders/leechers, not on the site but in bittorrent client, site stats might be not 100% accurate ),
and start the torrent, which has lower seeders:leechers ratio.


Yup yup. As it is now it is easy to upload. So why change something that works?

[Lordofevilcr]

now thats just not right, yea it allows everyone elsre to catch up, but what about the person that was so happy they got to 90%, then all of the sudden it stopped, thats just not cool in my book.

Yeah that really is irritating if that happens. I most of the times kick people for 5 min. if they have a low percentage and the others are almost done (95% or so). Since my client doesn't have superseed :p. And not all people are evil leechers, if those people finish they can start seeding too which will speed up the torrent.

[Soran]

Yup yup. As it is now it is easy to upload. So why change something that works?If not everyone, who want to have ratio 1:1+, would be able to upload so much
because everyone would try to upload as much as possible,
does not mean that upload would "not work",
because low ratio will not be seen as measurement for being leecher anymore.

[NezzoX]

If you can't judge someone to be a leecher by their ratio, then how do you decide who is a leecher?

[Soran]

If you can't judge someone to be a leecher by their ratio, then how do you decide who is a leecher?And why do we need to judge anyone if there are ( will be ) enough seeders?

[NezzoX]

And why do we need to judge anyone if there are ( will be ) enough seeders?


All with you on that issue. So can we come to the desision that the answer to the topic of this thread is that we dont need to do anything about the leechers?

[Soran]

All with you on that issue. So can we come to the desision that the answer to the topic of this thread is that we dont need to do anything about the leechers?No, it's up to the situation.
Right now we do not have seed-oversupply, rather too often seeders are missing.
So now it would be good if anti-leeching measures would be improved
( or at least a negative judgement is justified ),
but we should carefully monitor the situation and undo ( or temporary undo )
any anti-leeching measures as soon ( as long ) seeding becomes a competition.

[NezzoX]

No, it's up to the situation.
Right now we do not have seed-oversupply, rather too often seeders are missing.
So now it would be good if anti-leeching measures would be improved
( or at least a negative judgement is justified ),
but we should carefully monitor the situation and undo ( or temporary undo )
any anti-leeching measures as soon ( as long ) seeding becomes a competition.

Ok. I think I understand what you are saying. But that sounds like a great deal of work. Why not come up with a system that works all the time and just leave it be.

[Kitee]

now thats just not right, yea it allows everyone elsre to catch up, but what about the person that was so happy they got to 90%, then all of the sudden it stopped, thats just not cool in my book.
i never did that before,
but it's kind of funny when they all started at 20%, then this member just went ahead and took the lead.

[Soran]

Ok. I think I understand what you are saying. But that sounds like a great deal of work. Why not come up with a system that works all the time and just leave it be.I agree, but imo the current system is still too leechers-friendly,
and too many torrens lack seeders
( again, it's not site stats, i see it in my bittorrent client )
It *might* be enough if the statistics would be recorded accurate for multiple torrents,
since there are always enough people who critizise leechers :p
( no matter what we both agree upon in this thread )

[ynb]

From Boxtorrents.com:

2004-10-19 -A new system has been added for dealing with members with low ratios, if you happen to be one of the lucky people who has received a warning then you will find you can no longer connect. The way to remove a warning(http://boxtorrents.com/pic/warnedbig.gif) is to start up a torrent you already have 100% for and to seed that torrent until the warning goes away (aim for a ratio of 1).

I propose that we impose a similar anti-leech system. I'm tired of having to wait at 99%!

HongFire and admins: Please contact Boxtorrents's tracker admin and ask him how to set up such a system. Maybe set the rule to 1:1 or at least 1:0.7

[NezzoX]

From Boxtorrents.com:

2004-10-19 -A new system has been added for dealing with members with low ratios, if you happen to be one of the lucky people who has received a warning then you will find you can no longer connect. The way to remove a warning(http://boxtorrents.com/pic/warnedbig.gif) is to start up a torrent you already have 100% for and to seed that torrent until the warning goes away (aim for a ratio of 1).

I propose that we impose a similar anti-leech system. I'm tired of having to wait at 99%!

HongFire and admins: Please contact Boxtorrents's tracker admin and ask him how to set up such a system. Maybe set the rule to 1:1 or at least 1:0.7


Ah young one. The force is strong with you, but you still have much to learn.

Let me put it like this. The thingy that keeps track of you ratio at this place does not work so good. So say that your latest upload statistics didnt record and suddenly you are locked out. Its like having parents that shut out a 6 year old just because he didnt eat up his candy. You do see the flawed logic?

[Kitee]

hm, i am a member of boxtorrents and i do have to say, they record our stats pretty accurately compared to hongfire. even if i don't login, they can still record my stats as long as it's from their tracker. quite good actually.

[HFJuon]

I do not believe the tracker is working properly. I had been doing nothing but seeding
really these past few days & my ratio dropped from 0.77 to 0.57. I'm still doing nothing but seeding & it still shows 0.57. I've uploaded 624MB in that time.

I would suggest that you give a user at least a week to try & change their ratio before
sending out leecher warnings.

Likewise because torrrent death is common here it is not always easy to find leechers
for a torrent one wishes to seed. What can be done about that?

[NezzoX]

Im starting to get angry with all this hysteria. Like something is wrong. I mean, everything is working! (With exception for the ratio tracking system thingie)

Why dont we all wait until we get something real to talk about. It is my believe that HongFire works good enough for everyone to have a good time. Leechers and no leechers.

And I just noticed that the last 4gig I downloaded and seeded for about three days didnt at all record. Doesnt matter much.

[vodanh]

my ratio isn't correct according to wut i've uploaded...anyways...as long as I dont get judged..

if its good, and its hard to get, and there are very little seeders, i seed, in that order.. esp now that there's a good community here im more inspired to seed to share the stuff around..one of the biggest things that would cause me to re-seed is when alot of people are stuck near the 90%'s..<its really annoying when 20-30 ppl are all at 99.9% >
.. if its bad stuff i usually dont seed, but that doesn't happen much here.

[HFJuon]

This is just my opinion but I think the institution of quotas in general is a knee jerk
reaction that barely addresses the bigger problem : distribution of seeders & peers
over all torrents.

Quotas can actually hurt that distribution because it encourages people to simply
download the most popular torrents so that can keep their ratio's up. In some cases
some users download these torrents not out of desire but rather need. This hurts distribution because these users are devoting their bandwidth to torrents that have
an over-supply of leechers already.

Ratio's only really address one problem : hit & run leechers. I don't think there are
many of them here at hongfire.

Look at the distribution of seeders here:
100+ seeders : 50 torrents
60-100 seeders : 50 torrents
40-60 seeders : 50 torrents
30-40 seeders : 100 torrents
20-30 seeders : 100 torrents

And so on. There are 5100+ torrents here & about 3000 of them have inadequate
seed or peer levels. That's the most critical need here & that's what needs to be addressed.

[HFJuon]

I have a couple of suggestions for addressing the problem that better than 1/2 the torrents here are under-fed.

1) Add a needers category to the torrent search so that users can quickly see what torrents are in need of seeders. The leecher would need to keep his client up for the torrent to make the list.

2) Add a new ratio stat called bonus & allow it to be counted in upload total. Assign bonus based on leecher/seeder ratio of torrent at time of seeding.
Example1:
Let's say I'm about to seed a 300MB torrent that has 0 seeders & 9 leechers at the time I start up my seed.
After seeding 300MB my ratio would be uload +300, dload +0, bonus +2700
The leecher/seeder ratio after I fire up my seed is 9.

Example2:
I start up a seed of Naruto 106. The L/S = 1644/2993 or about .54.
After seeding 168MB I would receive uload +168, dload +0, bonus +93

By these two examples you can see how bonus encourages users to seed
near-starving torrents. Likewise it serves as a good reputation stat for
torrent users. The users with the highest bonus values would be the best
citizens of the community.

If you need help coding these simple changes let me know. Arrigato :)

[HFJuon]

For historical purposes my stats are 3010 UL, 5260 DL. I'm guess I've lost about 1000 UL
since my stats became frozen in time.

That being said I had another idea that I think could benefit our torrent community.
I think some of us when we desire a torrent that isn't being seeded pm either the uploader of the torrent or the last person posting in that torrent's thread.

We do this because we know the next time that person logs in they will see they
have at least 1 new pm & now a personal request plays on their conscience to seed
the torrent. For the most part it's a good strategy but one that is very dependant
upon a sole individual logging in. I think we can change that for the better.

What I propose is a check box option when sending the pm to flag the pm as a
seed request. Pm'g a seed request would then send the pm to the recipient & log
the pm in a seed thread or folder. Now when someone logs in who wants to seed
they just need to look at that thread or folder for the most recent seed requests.

I know that if I logged in & found a seed request pm I would immediately fire up a seed
& I think most of us would. Whether the tracker was working or not.

[evr]

Yes when someone's ratio is very low then we will do something about it. Ban their account/IP for few days weeks month. But some people maybe just have slow connections and if their ratio is bad but they are supporting the community in other way then it's still ok. Don't worry we are watching it.

Are you really? 10 of top 30 downloaders have a ratio below 0.25. 5 of those 10 have a ratio below 0.10.. People with slow connections don't download 100gb+ just like that..

[NezzoX]

People people. Im gonna make you all sad. But I really dont see it as my duty to download something just to seed it, if it is something I dont like. The whole freedom with internet is that you are able to get what you want and dont get what you dont want. So even if something needs seeders, and it is something I dont want to have, I will not seed. But if it is something I like and want, I will seed as much as I can.

I think everyone (almost) thinks the same.

[Sebow]

Bleh... I got a low ratio, but don't blame me...
first of; I don't know how to seed files (please help me if someone knows how to x_o),

second... for some reason it doesn't register all what I uploaded and downloaded... the numbers it registered are so farfetched. x_o

[HFJuon]

Seeding is easy. I'll assume you know how to start a bittorrent client to leech.
Well seeding is either 1) leaving that client running after you have reached 100% or
2) restarting the client.

When you restart the client it connects to the tracker that then announces which torrent you have. Leechers wanting your torrent will then begin to leech off your seed. It all happens automatically based on the torrent link.

example1:
I'm currently seeding a torrent. It's the case where I was leeching but eventually
reached 100%. At that time my client transitioned from a peer (both leeching & seeding) to a straight seed.
My total stats for that torrent are: 36.99MB DL, 79.09MB UL, ratio 2.139
At present there are 16 seeders & 1 peer so my seed rate is only 2 KB/s.

example2:
This torrent is much bigger. At present my DL 1266 MB, UL 439 MB for a ratio of .35
My DL rate is 19, & UL rate is 7. Because I am both DL & UL I am considered a peer
as opposed to a leech. There are 16 other peers & 7 seeds. What's important to
consider here is that I have allocated as much as 13 KB/s for UL. Yet the UL rate has never exceeded 10 KB/s. That's outside of my control.

This is important. There is plenty of demand for this torrent so when I reach 100%
regardless of whether the tracker is working properly or not I owe it to those people
to at least seed until either the demand drops significanty or I reach a ratio of 1.0.

[HFJuon]

I think I see one of the problems now with the tracker logic.
I decided to close a seed to see if the tracker would update. It did.
I am now at UL 3090, DL 5297, ratio .58
I then restarted the torrent & now it can't connect to the tracker.
After 5 min I stopped & restarted it & it finally connected but the numbers are strange.
It went from having 16 seeds & 3 peers to 0 seeds & 1 peer, myself not included.

What it tells me is that the tracker does not refresh often enough when it comes
to connections. If we go on the assumption that Hongfire stats are only updated
when a connection is closed then there exists a strong possibility that the closing
of a connection is not always clean & thus the update won't occur.

In my opinion it would be better to adopt a 20 minute update strategy that is used
at most other sites. If that is too resource intensive here (most other sites have less than 1000 torrents total & HF has over 5200) then I propose this work-around that
I think will work. At least I plan to test it. I will post an update soon either way.

[HFJuon]

I tested the work-around & it was not successful. What I did was to fire up a 2nd client for the same torrent. I let it accrue for 5 minutes & then closed it. My quota only reflected the net change in that connection & not the first.

The only sure method to updating your quota is to properly close your torrent connection. It seems to update within 5 min after closing a torrent so it's easy to
check. Since client or server problems can cause an abnormal closure (and consequently lost quota) it's probably a good idea to close & re-open torrents
as often as possible to keep your quota stats updated.

[HFJuon]

This is probably overkill but over at animesuki they do acknowledge a problem people are having with their ISP's. It appears many are beginning to limit the upload bandwidth to discourage P2P. No doubt the media industry is bribing them to do this.

So it is possible for users to have as good as 300 KB/s on the DL & only 20 KB/s on the UL. If they are downloading low demand torrents to begin with they could have a tough go at restoring their quotas.

The easiest remedy to this is for this user to download a high demand torrent & then seed it. This is always possible at this site. The latest ep of Naruto is
a testament to that. Now you might not like Naruto & you might detest having to download & seed it for the sake of your quota but it is your quota that allows you to get what you want.

With that in mind I think this is a good policy to put in place.
When a user falls below .4 allow them access so long as his DL-UL <= 1 GB.
If it is <= 1 GB at the time they fall below .4 then allow them to download no more than 1 GB more. At the time they reach that 1 GB more if their ratio has not improved ban them from downloading torrents but still allow them to seed until their ratio is restored to .6 or better.

I think this is more than fair & it addresses both the problems of severely limited UL rates & tracker stats not updating.

Like I said earlier Naruto is always their to build one's quota :D

This won't address torrent distribution but even an over-saturation of
Naruto seeds means more people get the latest episode faster. That's
still helping the community. ;)

[pes]

Well, my ratio suggest that I don't seed much...

I'm just new here (and new to BT too) and so far I've only completed 1 torrent and the others stuck at some percentage.

Can you help this young'un with these:
*can you seed even if there are no other peers?
*can you seed even if you're not 100% done with that torrent?

[Soran]

*can you seed even if there are no other peers?No.

*can you seed even if you're not 100% done with that torrent?You can upload, and you ratio may even go up ( if you upload faster than download at this moment ),
anyway "seed" means to upoad if you have 100%,
without seeders no one would be able to complete the upload.

[srea]

Can you seed even if there are no other peers?
- Yes, but nothing will happen `cause you can't upload any files to 0 peer. You can continue seeding when peers come.

[Soran]

Can you seed even if there are no other peers?
- Yes, but nothing will happen `cause you can't upload any files to 0 peer. You can continue seeding when peers come.I'm not sure what is the exact definition of "to seed",
you mean it's "sharing a complete file",
my definition was "uploading while you are sharing complete file",
so that being a seed and seeding would be 2 different things.
Whichever definition is correct, i think, considering pes's second question,
as well as the fact that he was concerned about his ratio,
he meant rather uploading than just having the status "seed" and doing nothing,
thus my answer was correct :p
( i.e. it's P2P, you can't upload actual files to the server )

[srea]

I'm not sure what is the exact definition of "to seed",
you mean it's "sharing a complete file",
my definition was "uploading while you are sharing complete file",
so that being a seed and seeding would be 2 different things.
Whichever definition is correct, i think, considering pes's second question,
as well as the fact that he was concerned about his ratio,
he meant rather uploading than just having the status "seed" and doing nothing,
thus my answer was correct :p
( i.e. it's P2P, you can't upload actual files to the server )

Well , if you means to his ratio then you're right.
You'll get nothing if there's no peer.

[NezzoX]

Well you can get real high ratios even if you are stuck on 97.7% and are waiting for a seeder. That is no fun though.

But I have to say in HongFire's defence that I have never encountered any problems downloading what I want here. Except for the ratio problems and sometimes it takes forever.

[Highlander]

Share ratio should NOT really mean much, since not all stats are updated/correct.

Me for instance, my pc crashes several times a day (Windows ME).
And each time my pc crashes, it never sends my upload/download ratio to the tracker.

Unless the tracker updates the ratio constantly, then it is allmost allways wrong.

Not to mention people have hacked/custom clients faking their upload/download ratio,
and only the extreme fakers get caught, as in upload 100000 TB;
not to mention the low stat fakers, as 30 gb upload and 10 gb download, you can never tell.


I still think the biggest help is: requiring to log in to download the .torrent and
signing up to connect to the tracker with a client is the biggest help.

[NezzoX]

Unless the tracker updates the ratio constantly, then it is allmost allways wrong.

Not to mention people have hacked/custom clients faking their upload/download ratio,
and only the extreme fakers get caught, as in upload 100000 TB;
not to mention the low stat fakers, as 30 gb upload and 10 gb download, you can never tell.


I think this guy is on to something...

[HFJuon]

I don't believe that most of these trackers are dependent upon the client for stats.
The tracker manages the connections between peers & therefore can keep track
of how much data passes to & from a peer w/out having to get that information
from the client.

I believe short of hacking the tracker database itself (which is certainly in the realm
of possibility), a person can't increase or decrease their stats.

The idea of torrent registration is an interesting one because it can help
the distribution problem. This works particularly well at this site where there is a
torrent thread created forever torrent uploaded.

Basically to download a torrent you must make a post in the thread. This gives HF
a list of all users that download a specific torrent & this can be made of use for
group re-seed requests. Basically when you need a torrent to be re-seeded you
would use the pm mechanism & select a re-seed request box. This function would
then result in a pm being sent to everyone posting in that torrent thread.

The resulting posts to download torrents would provide an admin or mod to double
check a users stats when there is doubt. It's not hard to total up all the DL from the
user's posts & it's equally not hard to come up with a rough figure of the max a person
could UL based on their torrent activity.

This would certain improve the system, but it's a lot of work for both the site admins
& the users. Probably not worth the trouble.

[Lordofevilcr]

I still don't see a problem. I have uploaded about 20 torrents, and still after one month they are sometimes being seeded. There are enough kind people on hongfire who will seed your files. And torrents sad enough, die anyway. Old torrents just aren't downloaded that much.

And a discussion about ratio also doesn't help. My ratio isn't even near being right. I downloaded and upload HUNDREDS of Gigs. I might even have a ratio under 1.00, I wouldn't know. But my stats aren't near that :p. Guess there's first some work to do for the tracker. Not that I care...

@hfjuon
I don't think making a member post before he can download will never work. Think of the bandwith it will cost. I wouldn't want 2000 posts in my wolf's rain torrent:o. It's already hard keeping up with my threads.
I think the system is fine as it is.

[NezzoX]

I still don't see a problem. I have uploaded about 20 torrents, and still after one month they are sometimes being seeded. There are enough kind people on hongfire who will seed your files. And torrents sad enough, die anyway. Old torrents just aren't downloaded that much.

And a discussion about ratio also doesn't help. My ratio isn't even near being right. I downloaded and upload HUNDREDS of Gigs. I might even have a ratio under 1.00, I wouldn't know. But my stats aren't near that :p. Guess there's first some work to do for the tracker. Not that I care...

@hfjuon
I don't think making a member post before he can download will never work. Think of the bandwith it will cost. I wouldn't want 2000 posts in my wolf's rain torrent:o. It's already hard keeping up with my threads.
I think the system is fine as it is.


I like this reasoning... not much more to say about it.

[Anaksulnamun]

Frankly ,after I get to 1.1 ratio I'll delete it ,but I always burn the files to the CDs so that when someone request ,I can seed it again :P

[Pandaman]

I don't believe that most of these trackers are dependent upon the client for stats.
The tracker manages the connections between peers & therefore can keep track
of how much data passes to & from a peer w/out having to get that information
from the client.

I believe short of hacking the tracker database itself (which is certainly in the realm
of possibility), a person can't increase or decrease their stats.

Personally I'm not sure on the subject either, but I think it is the responsibility of the client to report the stats. I used to use an early version of ABC that had a bug where it would report your UL/DL every time you stopped the torrent; so what ended up happening was that every time I stopped seeding something for the night, both my DL and UL report would increase (even if I wasn't downloading anything else for that particular day).

I noticed that the tracker (old hongfire tracker, two versions ago) was reporting that I was something like six gigs ahead in UL, despite my strict adherance to killing torrents whenever I broke 1.0 :p

But anyway, that's my two cents.

[Crys]

Sheesh. I've uploaded two albums tonight, and within a half an hour, I have half a dozen leechers on both with no comments or anything. This is pathetic, but you know, some things never change. I bet if I uploaded hentai or porn, I'd get a lot of comments (thanx man *fap fap fap*).

It's sad, though. Just look through any page of the Members List and you'll see so many users who have typical leech ratios and no posts to their names.

[tzuendaniel]

Well, it's understandable that they came here to get anime, manga, osts, hentai, etc, but they should know that this isn't another Suprnova...

Having them post would be nice, but let's just suppose that they're too busy to do so and then we won't be angry. There's aren't really any "leecher" leechers, but I understand your point. A real example: I'm seeding one torrent that I didn't upload, and yet I'm the only one seeding even though I've helped people complete their downloads. Yes, it's infuriating, especially since my ratio for that file (~222 MB) is around 6.
However, I don't think that we'll be able to stop them, and banning them from the server is just going to keep their ratio and upload low.

[Kitee]

Sheesh. I've uploaded two albums tonight, and within a half an hour, I have half a dozen leechers on both with no comments or anything. This is pathetic, but you know, some things never change. I bet if I uploaded hentai or porn, I'd get a lot of comments (thanx man *fap fap fap*).

It's sad, though. Just look through any page of the Members List and you'll see so many users who have typical leech ratios and no posts to their names.
but you see, hentai animes usually have about 200 leechers, and you usually only get 10 replies from them. this means that you get one reply for every 20 leecher. so being with osts that are not as popular, you don't get as many posts unless there is a discussion going on within the thread.

[evr]

I don't really think the tracker not recording every single thing someone uploads/downloads as a problem. Sure, it might happen every now and then, but it's not like someone with a ratio of 0.1, 150 gb downloaded and <10 posts just had bad luck with the tracker every time it updated. It's just some damn leecher that doesn't give a rats ass about the community. He/She just wants to take advantage of other peoples work without giving anything back.

I can't see a single reason why people like that shouldn't be banned from both the site and the tracker.. :mad:

[LurkingKnight]

don't update my ass.

Explain how the download keeps rising on some accounts and the upload remains significantly lower and the ratio continues to drop or stay the same. Are you telling me that the DOWNLOAD indicator is the only one functioning properly?

Now I can understand bandwidth limitations or connection sharing limitations imposed by households sharing a connection. That's fine and dandy, maintain a .5 or greater, it's not that hard. Lower your simultaneous upload connections and overal upload speed to say, 10 kb/s opposed to the 20 you have, and that's fair.

I really want to stay below my ISPs B/W radar, but I still do my best to spread what I have or what I'm downloading myself, even if it IS slower than what I'm getting it at. Hell during hours of peak usage in the house I will gimp my upload to 5 or 10 kb/s but I'm STILL uploading.

I say if a leeching bastard with a ratio you think is that of a hoarding leech, then just don't answer requests to reseed or requests at all.

When I start a torrent, I feel that my obligation to that torrent ends at 2-3 full copies sent, then it's the community's responsibility to keep that torrent alive as long as there is demand for it. IT's too bad the tracker can't keep track of how long each user has seeded a torrent they were downloading.

The other thing I might want to call attention to is the possibility of mule accounts, where there are accounts that people use to do the leeching, and accounts they use to do the posting and requesting, I've seen it done before, and I wouldn't put it past a bunch of greedy bastards.

[tacotaco]

Just wondering what I could do as a member to help keep my ratio up. I remain as a seeder after I finish downloading and would upload andthing I find (If I could ever find anything worth uploading). Just wondering if becoming a seeder for awhie is enough or if I would need to find actual things to upload...
Also wondering how to find out your ratio with out posting anything.

[Kitee]

Just wondering what I could do as a member to help keep my ratio up. I remain as a seeder after I finish downloading and would upload andthing I find (If I could ever find anything worth uploading). Just wondering if becoming a seeder for awhie is enough or if I would need to find actual things to upload...
Also wondering how to find out your ratio with out posting anything.
you don't have to upload something to get your ratio up. just seeding something is enough. you don't necessary have to post something to see your ratios. you can go to the member list tab on the top and type your name and see your stats.

[Mitsumi]

what about those of us who have wrong ratios? >.>

[doctor//GENETIC]

eh, where to type name in memberlist :confused:

To check your stats is thru the quick links tab then choose 'my profile'
Quick Links > My profile

Tracker seems fine to me, I've checked it myself, the only UL/DL it doesnt track are the remote torrents and torrents from other trackers ofcourse...

[AzureLight]

You see, HF is so tempting to just click and download. But I haven't done so because I have a suckarse ADSL. I'm afraid my ratio would go so low.

But I will give in to downloading something, that's for sure. And I will seed upon completion. But when my u/l speed is around 4-5 kb/s that can't be helped even if I seed it for a week, can it?

ugh ;_; I'll be banned soon...

[DreamweaverN]

I think the idea would be good if the stat tracker worked all the time. For instance when I joined I found a few torrents I wanted to get and I've been seeding them ever since I finished downloading them but as far as I can tell none of it has gone towards my stats. If the problems were worked out I think it would be good to implement but as it is... Just my 0.02c :).

[wexp]

I'm downloading quite a bit, and I try to seed as much as I can. Sometimes I can't even browse web pages, because I'm seeding so much that my bandwidth is stopping totally.

Hopefully I'll get a symmetric 1mbit connection by christmas, then it'll become a bit easier ;)

[ynb]

To help make the discussion more useful, would someone summarize the current discussion, perhaps into the following format:

1. Definition of the key problems
2. Suggested solutions to said problems
3. Prioritizing solutions according to common goals or values of the community (which common goals or values?; which goals or values are more important than others? & why are they more important?)
4. Choose alternate solutions/backup solutions.

Just so people who have come fairly recently into the discussion don't have to read all the pages (like me), and also a re-entry into the topic for the people who've been reading the thread since the start.

[ot4ku]

Hi ^^"
I have (as you can see 0.09" a realy realy sucking ratio!) but im no hardcore leecher (i think so).
I will complain why my ratio sucks so mutch, it has nothing to do with speed, or time, i have my download-pc 24h per day on.

I will download the "old" files from this forum, because if i beginn at the torents from yesterday, i loose all the files they are released since beginning of the new tracker two month ago.
I WILL download, and download that i have ONE day all files a needet think the beginning, i will download the actual files.. but first i need the old files.

The Problem:
1.) There are no seeders, sometimes 1 ore 2 seeders hwo seed the old files
2.) Because i download the old files, there are nowone (sometimes there is one) to hwo i can upload and seed. But my ratio sucks because of it.

Can anywone help me please? Is anywone there hwo has most of the games, h-games, osts, cg collections, (not complete anime series) hwo can SELL me some DVD`s with he files? I REALY want the files, so i can download fom actual torrents, and seed files, i feel like im 20km behind a bus... and im on a bycicle :(

So if anywone has most of the files, please contact me with private message, and say me a price, and how mutch DVD`s needet, i pay the dvds also. if nowone helps, im going crazy... plz!

[NezzoX]

Hi ^^"
I have (as you can see 0.09" a realy realy sucking ratio!) but im no hardcore leecher (i think so).
I will complain why my ratio sucks so mutch, it has nothing to do with speed, or time, i have my download-pc 24h per day on.

I will download the "old" files from this forum, because if i beginn at the torents from yesterday, i loose all the files they are released since beginning of the new tracker two month ago.
I WILL download, and download that i have ONE day all files a needet think the beginning, i will download the actual files.. but first i need the old files.

The Problem:
1.) There are no seeders, sometimes 1 ore 2 seeders hwo seed the old files
2.) Because i download the old files, there are nowone (sometimes there is one) to hwo i can upload and seed. But my ratio sucks because of it.

Can anywone help me please? Is anywone there hwo has most of the games, h-games, osts, cg collections, (not complete anime series) hwo can SELL me some DVD`s with he files? I REALY want the files, so i can download fom actual torrents, and seed files, i feel like im 20km behind a bus... and im on a bycicle :(

So if anywone has most of the files, please contact me with private message, and say me a price, and how mutch DVD`s needet, i pay the dvds also. if nowone helps, im going crazy... plz!


You are asking someone to break the law just to give you some files? Now that's just thinking like a computer nerd... :D

[AzureLight]

... I'm screwed. I swear I haven't downloaded anything, at least to the extent of 206mb, and it showed up while ABC was still running.

There goes my ratio... ugh

EDIT: Okay I'm really screwed - I've been given someone else's stats. It's moving while I haven't uploaded or downloaded anything

[Asundai]

... I'm screwed. I swear I haven't downloaded anything, at least to the extent of 206mb, and it showed up while ABC was still running.

There goes my ratio... ugh

EDIT: Okay I'm really screwed - I've been given someone else's stats. It's moving while I haven't uploaded or downloaded anything

Probably transparent proxies or something.. i have that problem. Ive got over 400mb uploaded on one torrent (definately local tracked) and yet nowhere near that shows up on my account.. ratios completely screwed up.

Is there anyway to see your current IP or connect to the site through another port? I know on other torrent sites using a port like 6969 would bypass the proxy and allow the site to get my real IP.

[tacotaco]

Well i fixed up my ratio although during the process something happened to my computer and half of my c drive got deleated :( . Don't know if i'm gonna leave torrents open for that long seeding anymore but at least i bumped my ratio up to past 1 :) .

[dreamerzz]

boxtorrent was a "flexible" community, very helpfull when it comes to requests. then people started whining about how lurkers with bad ratios ruining the community. when the site back online after a short downtime, they asked users to register. this was when the "good ratio" policy started being enforced. i for one won't blame boxtorrent for their action. to keep a community which based on "give and take" alive, this has to be done, though they could've used a lighter aproach.... why? well, some people can't keep good ratio not because they don't want to, but because they prolly faced with certain probs which prevent them from seeding too long etc. however, the habit of quiting after done with the download, hoping the original seeder to take care of the job, really hurts other users. if you got the speed, spend a few minutes seeding. it helps more than one could imagine. but then again, it's up to everyone. just remember, what we do today, might change the color of the community in the future.

[TheException]

i think this discussion shoudl end because nothing is going to be done for or against any ratio matter. hongfire said so himself and moreover it's not going to do any good because ppl can dowload without being members. so sanction is pretty much useless. and anyone looked at hongfire's ratio?

[rei]

just leave ur pc on over night uploading entire night then ur ratio should be back up by then. always works for me

[evr]

i think this discussion shoudl end because nothing is going to be done for or against any ratio matter. hongfire said so himself and moreover it's not going to do any good because ppl can dowload without being members. so sanction is pretty much useless. and anyone looked at hongfire's ratio?Well the thing is as a member your IP number has probably been logged, thus banning the member by the IP and he can't download anything..

Don't you think that the fact that HongFire is running this whole community makes up for the low ratio? :rolleyes:

[Randomshinichi]

Well some people don't have static IPs you know. Actually, a lot don't. So it's quite useless.

[Soran]

Well some people don't have static IPs you know. Actually, a lot don't. So it's quite useless.Sure, so one should be able to download ( and upload ) only if logged in and recognized as HF member.

[NezzoX]

Well the thing is as a member your IP number has probably been logged, thus banning the member by the IP and he can't download anything..

Don't you think that the fact that HongFire is running this whole community makes up for the low ratio? :rolleyes:

Well, I have a locked ip by my internet provider. And if I want to I can call them and get a new ip within 5 min. For free! So I guess that more people can do that just to solve the "being banned" problem.

And whats with this talk about starting to ban people anyway? I dont like that idea. Actually, as I have said before, I dont even think we have a real problem here with all this ratio and leecher talk.

[Elta_kung]

My status isn't up date and I serious about it.
My ratio is running to low.
What can i do about it? [ - 3-"]

I think the community must do some think who lower ratio but not now.

[ynb]

Yeah, I think we've reached the end of the usefulness of this thread.

Die Thread Die!

[Crys]

No, we haven't. I've seen plenty of threads extend for MANY pages past the tolerable limit ("Girls?", anyone?).

I do think, however, that we should do a terminal cleaning every month or two, where everybody who has not accessed the site in over a month and who has a ratio lower than .2 and a post count lower than 10 is removed from the User Registry.

[NezzoX]

No, we haven't. I've seen plenty of threads extend for MANY pages past the tolerable limit ("Girls?", anyone?).

I do think, however, that we should do a terminal cleaning every month or two, where everybody who has not accessed the site in over a month and who has a ratio lower than .2 and a post count lower than 10 is removed from the User Registry.

Give it up. Like the man said before you. This thread must die. There is no point in nagging about this matter anymore.

[ot4ku]

hi, look at my ratio! NICE !!! k.. looks like i have more dl then ul, but i have 2 internet connections, so HOW does this ratio-system work?!?

[mrpenpen]

hi, look at my ratio! NICE !!! k.. looks like i have more dl then ul, but i have 2 internet connections, so HOW does this ratio-system work?!?

The ratio is base on everything you've downloaded in the past compare to how much you've given back. Example:
You download 2gig and uploaded 1gig 2:1 so your ratio is .5
2 internet connections?

[NezzoX]

hi, look at my ratio! NICE !!! k.. looks like i have more dl then ul, but i have 2 internet connections, so HOW does this ratio-system work?!?

Yeah, whats with that 2 internet connections stuff....

[doctor//GENETIC]

I think it would track it even if you got 2 connections and stuff. All you need to do is enable cookies so hongfire can track it.

[panterna]

I think it would track it even if you got 2 connections and stuff. All you need to do is enable cookies so hongfire can track it.

yep..true waht the man said..got 2 pcs uploading here..

[Nephillim]

yep..true waht the man said..got 2 pcs uploading here..

Not all the time. I once had 2 torrents running simultaneously, and only one recorded (it just happened to be my 'leeching' one. Bummer.).

Oh, and by the way doctor//GENETIC, I suggest you don't advertise that you're from Singapore. I've got a feeling the copyright enforcers are camping around here somewhere, ready to pounce on us the moment that law comes into place :P

[Sheen]

Perhaps the part of this that most people don't see is that when I'm using a torrent and I happen to notice a user who has a very low ratio for the session (say, 10:1 or worse), I ban them instantly and permantently. Now, those people could very well be valuable members of the community who post helpful advice, seed new content, or leave their clients running for a very long time after they're done downloading. They may even have a reasonable ratio. But I can't see any of that.

Hongfire has all the information which I don't, and is much better able to make the call and cut the jerks. And if someone gets warned, they may well be able to redeem themselves, unlike my permanent ban. However, if Hongfire takes no action then it's left to individuals to do so, which just causes problems.

Hongfire, please take some action against leeches.

In regards to ratios, there's only one ratio worth mentioning. 1.0. If you're below 1.0, you're taking from the community. Someone spent time uploading to you when they could be downloading something new. If you have an asymmetrical connection, that's no excuse. If you're below 1, instead of downloading that new file, continue to upload what you have. If that takes too long, get a new ISP.

To everyone who makes this community better in any way, thank you.

[Sealed J Sword]

What's to stop leechers from just registering as a new member everytime? How low would the ratio have to be? How long until we warn the member to raise it?

I'm sure there are other questions to ask in regards to "doing something about members with very low ratios" if Hongfire will initiate some proactive policy against such behavior.

I think right now Hongfire is a great site, full of cool things and helpful people. That leechers, people that ask questions before reading previous posts, rude people, ingrates, etc. will also flock here is unfortunate but not unexpected...

Perhaps torrents that force leechers to seed, or reach a certain ratio, would be more prudent then to work on changing the site itself (I am not sure if torrents can be made like this, but I noticed that some torrents I dl slow to a crawl upon reaching near completion of the file).

[SirVirus03]

I'm trying to upload the small games I downloaded from here, yet, cuz of the "Vonage telephone system" which uses a modem which allows me to use the phone through the internet, my connection sucks cuz of it. If the speed is too high, then I just lose the connection and I have to turn of and turn on again the modem. And I'm also behind the Univesrity firewall. But I'm still trying to upload smth what I was able to download. The main problem is that, some sources I'm trying to download usualy are like completed to 99.8%, and thats it. Nobody else has the rest 0.2% of the game source. I also don't have a lot of disk space, so all the big one's I try to burn asap on cd's to make room for more. But, even trying to upload stuff, I already downloaded from here, I don't get a lot of leechers for them, so it's kinda usualy always slow, or it remains zero. And I don't have any way to get my hands on cd/dvd's of hentai games, cuz I'm just a college student. But I try, and will try somehow to contribute to the community ^^.

[SirVirus03]

I'm trying to upload the small games I downloaded from here, yet, cuz of the "Vonage telephone system" which uses a modem which allows me to use the phone through the internet, my connection sucks cuz of it. If the speed is too high, then I just lose the connection and I have to turn of and turn on again the modem. And I'm also behind the Univesrity firewall. But I'm still trying to upload smth what I was able to download. The main problem is that, some sources I'm trying to download usualy are like completed to 99.8%, and thats it. Nobody else has the rest 0.2% of the game source. I also don't have a lot of disk space, so all the big one's I try to burn asap on cd's to make room for more. But, even trying to upload stuff, I already downloaded from here, I don't get a lot of leechers for them, so it's kinda usualy always slow, or it remains zero. But I try somehow to contribute to the community ^^.

[Paranoia]

If you should ban those with low ratios, then you should at least be sure that the counter is correct. Which I can gurantee it isn't. At least not in my case

[HFJuon]

I'd have to agree. I've lost close to 4 GB now worth of UL credit because of the faulty
tracker. I think the tracker needs to become much more reliable before we start penalizing people for bad ratio's.

[skittles]

I think banning has no effect on leechers in the first place. An IP ban is easy enough to get around for most people - just force IP change and be back on after a maximum of 1 minute downtime. Furthermore, this tracker doesn't require membership which makes it even easier...

[Mitsumi]

Hongfire has all the information which I don't, and is much better able to make the call and cut the jerks. And if someone gets warned, they may well be able to redeem themselves, unlike my permanent ban. However, if Hongfire takes no action then it's left to individuals to do so, which just causes problems.

In regards to ratios, there's only one ratio worth mentioning. 1.0. If you're below 1.0, you're taking from the community. Someone spent time uploading to you when they could be downloading something new. If you have an asymmetrical connection, that's no excuse. If you're below 1, instead of downloading that new file, continue to upload what you have. If that takes too long, get a new ISP.

To everyone who makes this community better in any way, thank you.

This clown made me lol. So my isp doesn't matter? You're telling someone to get another connection? "if it takes too long, get another isp?" Pft, while I agree leeches suck, your 2 year old mentality is pathetic. You're not even mentioning off-site trackers and broken local trackers anywhere. i spent a week seeding a tracker for over 7g, but since it was off-site, it didn't count. Should I go get a new isp for something completely unrelated to that?

yea, leeches suck, but so do people like you who don't use the preview post button before spamming us with uninformed nonsense. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should let the people who work on the site do their job, and you go back to banning people off your torrents.

:p

[malbolzcha]

i cant even change isp's. as u can see by my profile i live in the middle of no-mans-land. so unfortunately i have dialup and only 1 phone line. i have tried 2 leave my torrents open as long as i could after d/ldn but as i said only 1 line so i have limited time. from what i understand either dsl or cable will be availabe here in no less than 2 months. rest assured i will be hosting atleast 1 file(the only 1 i have found so far that isnt already on this site). i wont say what it is because i dont want some1 else 2 upload it. i will say that it is a rare hentai OVA (in english) and it is extremely funny(imagine that sex and comedy what could be better).

[NezzoX]

I have to agree that just saying that someone has to change their isp is a childish behaviour.

[saad]

this is useless talking leechers still be lechers and let them be who cares its theirs problem

[starscalling]

I'm trying to upload the small games I downloaded from here, yet, cuz of the "Vonage telephone system" which uses a modem which allows me to use the phone through the internet, my connection sucks cuz of it. If the speed is too high, then I just lose the connection and I have to turn of and turn on again the modem. And I'm also behind the Univesrity firewall. But I'm still trying to upload smth what I was able to download. The main problem is that, some sources I'm trying to download usualy are like completed to 99.8%, and thats it. Nobody else has the rest 0.2% of the game source. I also don't have a lot of disk space, so all the big one's I try to burn asap on cd's to make room for more. But, even trying to upload stuff, I already downloaded from here, I don't get a lot of leechers for them, so it's kinda usualy always slow, or it remains zero. But I try somehow to contribute to the community ^^.

bah!
sorry buddy but look at your ratio- this is the kind of thing i talk about, normally i would go into flame mode, but im taking the week off. so let me try to say this as gently as possible. EITHER SLOW YOUR DOWNLOAD TO CLOSE TO YOUR UPLOAD, OR USE ANOTHER PROTOCALL. i dont even see donor status here..... i mean you are getting things, and there is no way your ratio will be that far off. understand, the site owes me like DOZENS of gb. do i care? nope! is torrent the ONLY way i dl? NOPE. feel lucky im not in charge. so that having been said, id think anything under .3 is unforgivable. understand also please: THESE ARE MY OPINIONS. i am not hong. nor the mods. nor the admins. but if someone that had a ratio like that was asking for anything, i certainly would not bother. why should i take the bandwidth out of my downloading schedule [points to ratio, its better than even do the math] to simply feed a leecher? it kills torrents, and it hurts peoples feelings. i mean if you want something that bad, dont you think that other's do too? if we should respect your urge to download, shouldn't you as well? sorry to use you as an example, but that's the way the cookies crumble. please improve that ratio. if i was a mod with access to ppl's ratio's and ip's, i would take those bad ones and block em in my firewall/client. im not by anymeans saying that the numbers in place are correct, but im not gonna ***** if i got a bad ratio either. ill fix it- which is what i did when i first started
i was behind like 3gb... had a .3 ratio..., and its fine now!
lets participate! lets share! lets keep these things alive!

[AnimeJanai]

The coming wave in torrent clients will let you block anyone in your Swarm easily. Four major clients already let you do this. Depending on the client, the bans can be temporary or permanent or last only for the current session.

I look at my torrents and often block those people who are worse than Ratio three to one. That is 3:1 (in azureus terms) or 0.33 in BoxTorrent and HongFire terms. I am tempted already to make a plugin that automatically blocks users beneath a certain level and then re-polls to see if they have reformed their bad ways. I am still stuck on the re-read process since I am only getting errors. *sigh*

For those HongFire members who want to block users who have bad ratio from sucking their teat, you can use the following major clients:

G3 client 0.99 or older (newer one is similar but less obnoxious to Swarm)
bitcomet 0.56 onwards
Azureus 2201 onwards (Official upcoming release of ver 2202 will have it too)

I predict that when Azureus 2202 comes out (soon) it will cause a big shift in torrent users' mentality since they will have the tool to ban a bad Ratio. Since Az is like one third of the users here, all the superleechers will have to superleech from the non-Azureus users which puts a heavier load on them..... *wry grin* Eventually, someone will release a script or Azureus will put one in to auto-disconnect from anyone with a bad Ratio who has downloaded at least XX bytes.

Right now, bad Ratio is only enforced by a few trackers. It would be interesting if the clients finally evolved to have the feature to autoban superleechers as well, thus closing the big hole in the torrent specification which lets superleechers run amok.

[PlacidBlueAlien]

I'd rather a system that benefits good ratios instead of punishing bad ratios. I'm sure someone in the 22 pages listed must have said the same. For example, instead of post counts for requests; shouldn't it be ratios and donor status? I believe the system is still under the post count but I'm not quite certain. Then again, I never check requests or request anything myself. I did have one request way back but unfortunately I do not have the post count. I don't feel all inclined to post up stupid comments nor do I feel inclined to spam forums so I doubt I'll be getting there anytime soon.

In any case, I normally ignore reseed requests from real low ratio requests unless they are my own torrents in which I simply seed if there are no others seeding. I think proactive bans and the like leave a lot of room for error and a lot of people bitter. Passive retaliation still gets people angry but it doesn't get as violent so quickly. No one likes to be ignored but the chances of them pulling a gun on you vs pulling a gun on you if you are provoking them... quite a large margin in my mind. :)

Also, the passive way can already and is probably being done by the members of the community. Everyone has their own rulebook to play by and people do get the idea sooner or later. People may contribute in many different ways and I don't think banning on the sole basis of ratios is the smart way to go unless it's a constant near zero upload and 23080283 gigs of download. Slight exaggeration there.

[HFJuon]

I have another suggestion (I'll create a new thread) that might help this whole issue.
In my opinion the availability for seeds for torrents in demand that should take precedence over ratio's. I don't have a problem with a person who's ratio is < .50 if that person helps out seeding low demand torrents.

What bother's me the most is that after 10's or 100's of users download torrents
there are still a handful of people wanting those torrents but no one willing to seed
them. Those of us who are uploading torrents can't possibily seed them day in & day out.

I would prefer a system that bans people regardless of their ratio if they are not willing to at least seed the last torrent they downloaded to at least one other peer. That's what my suggestion will be about.

[NezzoX]

I'd rather a system that benefits good ratios instead of punishing bad ratios. I'm sure someone in the 22 pages listed must have said the same. For example, instead of post counts for requests; shouldn't it be ratios and donor status? I believe the system is still under the post count but I'm not quite certain. Then again, I never check requests or request anything myself. I did have one request way back but unfortunately I do not have the post count. I don't feel all inclined to post up stupid comments nor do I feel inclined to spam forums so I doubt I'll be getting there anytime soon.

In any case, I normally ignore reseed requests from real low ratio requests unless they are my own torrents in which I simply seed if there are no others seeding. I think proactive bans and the like leave a lot of room for error and a lot of people bitter. Passive retaliation still gets people angry but it doesn't get as violent so quickly. No one likes to be ignored but the chances of them pulling a gun on you vs pulling a gun on you if you are provoking them... quite a large margin in my mind. :)

Also, the passive way can already and is probably being done by the members of the community. Everyone has their own rulebook to play by and people do get the idea sooner or later. People may contribute in many different ways and I don't think banning on the sole basis of ratios is the smart way to go unless it's a constant near zero upload and 23080283 gigs of download. Slight exaggeration there.


That is the way to go. More benefits for the seeders. Just one problem still. The system that records your ratio is not working as good as you want to.

[OutRage]

Banning and blocking aren't really the best solutions. Blocking could work if there was a feature to check the Ratio and the Download speed of the ip. If the ip has a low ration and a low download speed (less than 2 kbps), then its understandable if they have a low ration and we should cut them some slack. But if their ratio is low and their download speed is uber fast (like more than 5 kbps), then they should be blocked until their ratios improve. You can't really tell people to change protocols or isps coz in most areas in Asia, only 2 kinds of ISPs are available to them, like the place I lived in for 3 years as an exchange student. One is the phone lines, which is pathetic (its takes 2 hours to download a 3MB file from direct download, imagine that), and the other is a T1 connection. If you can afford a T1 connection (which uber expensive, not even Japanese companies can afford that, usually only private wealthy catholic schools have these), you might as well move out of the country to a place that has cable internet. I would agree with PlacidBlueAlien that as of the moment, the reward system would be a much better option.

[NezzoX]

"But if their ratio is low and their download speed is uber fast (like more than 5 kbps)" What? 5kbps is not fast, not even acceptable. "If you can afford a T1 connection (which uber expensive, not even Japanese companies can afford that" A T1 connection isnt fast eighter. This makes me wonder if you even know what you are talking about.

I agree on that rewarding seeders and people who share is a better way to solve this problem.


Banning and blocking aren't really the best solutions. Blocking could work if there was a feature to check the Ratio and the Download speed of the ip. If the ip has a low ration and a low download speed (less than 2 kbps), then its understandable if they have a low ration and we should cut them some slack. But if their ratio is low and their download speed is uber fast (like more than 5 kbps), then they should be blocked until their ratios improve. You can't really tell people to change protocols or isps coz in most areas in Asia, only 2 kinds of ISPs are available to them, like the place I lived in for 3 years as an exchange student. One is the phone lines, which is pathetic (its takes 2 hours to download a 3MB file from direct download, imagine that), and the other is a T1 connection. If you can afford a T1 connection (which uber expensive, not even Japanese companies can afford that, usually only private wealthy catholic schools have these), you might as well move out of the country to a place that has cable internet. I would agree with PlacidBlueAlien that as of the moment, the reward system would be a much better option.

[OutRage]

What? 5kbps is not fast, not even acceptable.
Sorry, I meant 56kbps. 56 kbps is already pretty fast. Most ISPs in Asia are lower than 10kbps, depending on the region.


A T1 connection isnt fast eighter.
T1 connections not fast??????????? Well I don't know about you but 2mbps is pretty fast for me (unless you're used to Cable or DSL then I can understand your point, but as I have stated in my previous post, I'm comparing it to the phone connections, and Cable and DSL connections are not available in the area). Its a dedicated tower connection, as long as nothing is obstructing the path of the 2 towers it should be really fast compared to the crappy phone line connections.


This makes me wonder if you even know what you are talking about.
And Yes, I know what Im talking about. And was that remark even necessary?

Until theres a sure fire way to tell if an IP is just a leecher or one the of those unfortunate ones who have really bad connections, banning and blocking in my opinion are bad alternatives to solve this problem.

[NezzoX]

Ok, sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention.

Hm, well, 2mbit is kind of slow I think. But as you say, if you compare it to a dial up modem connection it is quite the difference.

I use a 8mbit dsl connection for the moment and I think that it is getting to slow for me. Dont think that I am rich and stuck up now. I am unemployed and quite poor actually, but here the costs for internet is very cheap in comparison to many other countries.

And for the banning and kicking part. I think you agree with me that it is starting to feel a bit like kindergarden when we even talk about kicking people.

The leechers doesnt bother me that much. So I dont see what all the fuzz is all about. I have said it many times in this thread.

[kippi3000]

wow. with 8 Mbit speeds i'll definitely in heaven..

anyways.. i've got a 384kbps dsl line, with an upload of *supposedly* 128kbps speed..
however, these days it goes all the way to uploading about 20kbytes per sec..
i'm still a college kid with needs for online gaming, so there is always a requirement for keeping some upload speed for myself..

anyway, my point is.. i'm a frequent user of suprnova.org, and just started using hongfire.com (which IMHO is an AWESOME site!) and i used to upload loads for suprnova.org..

however, lately, whenever i download a file, i always get zero upload speed.. even now, as i'm downloading Karen[lordofevilcr] from HF, there isn't any upload speed.. now, this counts against me in the u/d ratio, and it will make me look bad..

i dun think it's fair to penalize users for leeching.. if the file was the only file i downloaded, ever, then wouldn't I have an u/d ratio of 0MB/238MB??

i definitely agree that something should be done against leechers, but i would only back it up in the case that you CAN prove that the person is a real leecher, and not a victim of the circumstances..


and in case anyone wants to say that my settings cause 0 upload, i'd just like to say that my settings still allow for an additional 5kb/s to be uploaded.. in addition to my other download(paradise of japanvol23)which is currently uploading 10kb/s..i normally allow an upload speed of 5kb/s for each item, to a max of 3 items, and if there are less items, then i allocate 10kb/s

I agree with the idea that ppl who upload should get rewarded.. is there a way to record the length of time seeders are connected to the tracker?

that way, people like me who try to seed, *but no one wants the files,* at least have given effort to help the community..


i'm new here, so this may sound a little rude, but the user cp interface isn't that helpful.. i couldn't (still can't) find a way to check my upload ratio :confused: without posting a message.. (maybe i didn't read the help files, but everytime i try to read the help posts, i get the 403 error)

[OutRage]

@NezzoX: No problem ^_^ WOW 8mbits? I'd kill for a connection like that. Is internet really that cheap in Sweden? Yup, I totally agree with you. Just leave the low ratios alone. It doesn't bother HongFire so we shouldnt complain about it either.

@kippi3000: You can use your profile link on your quick links tab to check your ratios.

[rhapsody9]

About low ratios, if there would be rules that you can't download torrents if you have low ratios like boxtorrents, that would be a problem for aDSL users. Our download speed is 2x faster than upload speed... But well, we still seed after downloading a torrent though... (don't pay attention to my ratio since it isn't recording my uploads... and I can't visit the php link since there is an error)

[NezzoX]

@NezzoX: No problem ^_^ WOW 8mbits? I'd kill for a connection like that. Is internet really that cheap in Sweden? Yup, I totally agree with you. Just leave the low ratios alone. It doesn't bother HongFire so we shouldnt complain about it either.

@kippi3000: You can use your profile link on your quick links tab to check your ratios.

Well, my 24mbit adsl that I get in januari will cost me 80,15 canadian dollars/month. (Translated it for you...)

Weird enough, that is just what my current 8mbit costs me. So, the upgrade is more or less free. Have to buy a new adsl modem though.

The only thing that really sucks is my upload speed that is 1mbit. So even if I download something in just a few min I have to upload a whole night to compensate and reach at least a 1.1 ratio.

[Amphibious Ray]

Low ratios...*looks at my own ratio* :eek:
To be honest, I only downloaded one thing then decided to cancel it because I didn't want it anymore. Sorry.

[Nighthawk]

I'm sry to be one of these people with a low ratio and I'm really pissed off by it myself, but my connection provides 1024kbit UP and only 128kbit DOWN. I'm giving my best for the ratio but for 1 or better I'd have to reduce my DL to 16kByte or less. I hope you don't expect me to do this so plz have mercy...

[srea]

I think it's ok as long as you're not leech only.

[The Hermit]

I'm one of those with a low rating, simply cause i dont have a broadband connection at home any more. I download the stuff at work, burn it to disk and take it home. I seed while im at work, but if the boss is in or my sups around i wont seed. As much as i like supporting the places i get my stuff from im not going to risk my job for it :)

Once i get home i do put 1 file on seed, but since i have a 56k connection donnt expect to much. I've also noticed that what i seed from home doesnt show up, guess you mustn't like my firewall heheh.

As a rule i hate leeches, but its also a good idea to find out why they arent supporting. Most will most likely have a damn good reason why they arent.

[NezzoX]

I'm one of those with a low rating, simply cause i dont have a broadband connection at home any more. I download the stuff at work, burn it to disk and take it home. I seed while im at work, but if the boss is in or my sups around i wont seed. As much as i like supporting the places i get my stuff from im not going to risk my job for it :)

Once i get home i do put 1 file on seed, but since i have a 56k connection donnt expect to much. I've also noticed that what i seed from home doesnt show up, guess you mustn't like my firewall heheh.

As a rule i hate leeches, but its also a good idea to find out why they arent supporting. Most will most likely have a damn good reason why they arent.

You said something interesting. Maby my firewall is the cause for my faulty ratio. Hm, I must investigate this matter. Somehow...

[HFJuon]

To all you low ratio people, I'm fighting for you! I think it's more important that you contribute to seeding torrents as often as you can rather than how much you can seed.
Sometimes 1 seeder can make the difference to one peer completing their dl.

[Kitee]

Yes, i agree with HFJuon.
It's actually better to seed length wise instead of the amount.
I suggest slower, longer seeds than faster, quicker seeds.

[redcrush]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but there's a BT site called (something) that has an awesome system set up. You can't access any of the torrents until you sign up and they have your ratio up for you to see when you go to click on torrents for download and available on your profile page. They continually let you know how your ratios are, green is good, and yellow cautionary, and red is very bad. If your ratio goes into the red then you're just limited to uploading until your ratio is fixed. You wouldn't believe how fast the downloads are there, b/c people HAVE to seed otherwise they can't leech.

I don't know if this site can install that kind of system, but I think that it definitely does it's job on that site.

[pulatte]

I think I know what site you're talking about. Actually, there are a lot of torrent sites I've signed up for with that system. Though some just do it for no reason, as they neither penalize or reward users for their ratios. I guess they just wanted you to know how you're doing.
But anyway, I do have an issue with the system. First of all I'd like to mention that my ratios are usually good on torrent sites (my average is around +5.00), but when they takes dips, it isn't usually because I'm not seeding, it's because ppl aren't leeching. I mean if I were to leech a torrent that was unpopular or old, then when and if I'm finished d/l the file, regardless of how long I keep the torrent seeded, it won't help my ratio b/c no one's going to leech it. The only options I got now, is either continue seeding my neglected torrent(s) for weeks and weeks praying that someone else will leech it/them sometime, or d/l a more popular torrent(s) (which will kill my ratio even more first) and seed that/those too. This basically forces me to keep a file(s) in my hard drive that I might not even care for and is a waste of space just so I can regain some of my ratio back. I'm not bad mouthing the system, I'm just expressing my qualms about it, because sometimes you're not penalizing bad leechers, but users who just have bad luck or a minority's taste.

...Say did I explain that right? Hope it did.

[Ppalley]

I think a lot of people here are forgetting that BitTorrent is a system meant to help share the burden of distributing a file. I'm not entirely sure where some get the idea that everyone has to have a >1 ratio, but it's just not true. The intent was to help ease the initial distributor's bandwidth useage.

Everything else is just community by-laws.

[Biges]

What's my ratio? Oh, I see. I'm only a casual downloader :)

[jsnut]

Tracker is offline so the ratio is not updated anymore. Also, members registering after the tracker went offline do not have ratio.

End of story. It's time to close this old thread. :P