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Hayeate
09-16-2006, 02:22 PM
Better put this up before someone else inevitably does. Read all about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI_Islam_controversy

I am outraged at how the head of the Christianic church could make such insensitive comments about Muslims. Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and submission, as we are reminded constantly by the worldwide Muslim reaction whenever even a hint of criticism about their faith surfaces to the public eye.

Soliber
09-16-2006, 02:26 PM
That was a far cry from "even a hint"; that was down right rude:st:

Hayeate
09-16-2006, 03:08 PM
That was a far cry from "even a hint"; that was down right rude

While making threats against Christians and bombing their churches in return is not?

ChaozXIII
09-16-2006, 03:18 PM
he is about to apologise some time later(on CNN), CNN said that he is just quoting some guy and stating that reason and faith can go toghether( i don't see how from that quote). is that his real intention? i don't know since im not religious. it is a possibility that he is just convering the shame that he did that. if he really meant to apologise, it wouldn't matter because people are still going to riot anyways

mewmew
09-16-2006, 03:29 PM
"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." And I suppose the Christians never done anything remotely similar. But then the Muslims action of fire-bombing two churches in Nablus does a very poor job of showing that Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and submission.

chompy
09-16-2006, 03:35 PM
It's the pope you idiots. It's hardly noteworthy that a man that can oppose contraception as a concept can say inflammatory things. F*ck the pope. He also says that I'm going to hell for not bowing to his god. You gotta look at these things and think.

Let's just keep our heads down and do our best to avert WWIII until the day people realise that organised religion is no longer relavant. Maybe then we can have a world free from religious difference and the intolerance it brings, and something like "heaven" may dawn.

MrWiseman
09-16-2006, 04:04 PM
I am outraged at how the head of the Christianic church could make such insensitive comments about Muslims. Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and submission, as we are reminded constantly by the worldwide Muslim reaction whenever even a hint of criticism about their faith surfaces to the public eye.Heh, win.


This world's going fubar. Now people can't even say one bad thing about a holy f*cking war; if it's muslim then it's untouchable. Meanwhile, muslims can say and do anything with the rest because they are poor people with a religion of peace. Religion of peace my ass. The fact they act this way proves it's not.

Then you have the actual wars. When Bush feels like starting a war (which is stupid crap), everybody is outraged. When muslims practice their holy war bull (which is stupid crap), everyone, including the media, especially the media, look aside and pretend it doesn't happen.

What I wonder is, why just islam? What's in it that makes it so likeable that some people will overlook absolutely anything and defend them constantly, even against their victims? I'm trying to understand what could people like in islam, but I just can't find a single reason to like that.

bloodhand
09-16-2006, 04:22 PM
Now that the christianity isn't allowed to burn, drown, or in any other way kill you, it kinda lost it's spice <_<
Religion is just not that important anymore - many people just use it as a cover to do as they please. Like throwing Molotovs at churches. Or going to war.

And yes, Benedict the XVI. just quoted some king who's dead 600 years.

Areskel
09-16-2006, 04:25 PM
I am outraged at how the head of the Christianic church could make such insensitive comments about Muslims. Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and submission, as we are reminded constantly by the worldwide Muslim reaction whenever even a hint of criticism about their faith surfaces to the public eye.
I didn't even need to read the punchline to start laughing.

I saw this earlier, all I can do is laugh. Yet another PR nightmare at the Vatican and the typical over reaction of Muslims all across the world.

Bloodhand, you don't need a reason to throw a molotov at a church :p

Mai Tokiha
09-16-2006, 04:38 PM
"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Whoa, that really takes the cake... no wonder the Muslims are pissed :O
There the Christian church goes again, showcasing their immense and well-known intolerance toward other religions http://www.hongfire.com/forum/images/smilies/cs/smile005.gif
Guess you could say the same about Christianity if you were so inclined, with all the nasty things it has done :P
That was about as sensitive as an elephant in a porcellaine shop. The situation is already bad enough as is, we really don't need this braindead retard pouring oil into the flames :rolleyes:

This just shows once again that religion often only creates hate and intolerance http://www.hongfire.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

Bubblemonkey
09-16-2006, 04:52 PM
Took a second look at the passages, and feel that there needs to be some clarification on the context. The line in question ("Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.") was being quoted from a byzantine emperor from back in the days when christians and muslims spent most of their time trying to stick each other with swords and spears and was simply being used as a reference to a dialogue that emperor had with an unnamed educated Persian. This whole thing has blown totally out of proportion...it's like me having a discussion about World War II with someone and quoting something Hitler says. Does that make me a Nazi?

While it's true the Catholic Church is far from the most tolerant of organizations, I don't think they intended to straight up insult Islam. It seems like he was simply trying to explain the fallacy of 'holy war' and the concept of 'forced conversions' to like minded catholics. In all likelyhood, someone at that conference wanted to make a stink, so latched onto a phrase that sounds controversial when taken out of context and started the uproar.

Maybe the pope misunderstood Islam and maybe a lot of what he said is wrong. Regardless, Areskel's right...the Muslims are overreacting. Case in point (a reaction to the pope's statement of clarification/apology):

. A representative for the Muslim Brotherhood rejected the Vatican statement, noting "Has he presented a personal apology for statements by which he clearly is convinced? No." [29] Grand Mufti Shaikh Abdul-Azeez ibn Abdullaah Aal ash-Shaikh, Saudi Arabia's highest religious authority, called the pope's declaration "lies", adding that they "show that reconciliation between religions is impossible." [30]

AVE IMPERATOR
09-16-2006, 06:31 PM
All I can say is... Atheism and Deism for the win!

Hassoon
09-16-2006, 06:38 PM
Religion is the root of all evil.I am always amazed that muslims say they are a religion of peace and tolerance,then do everything they can do prove otherwise.The pope did nothing wrong,but he should have realized how intolerant muslims are and not made them.

ShadowZero1
09-16-2006, 07:11 PM
Step right up! It's the fight of the century, folks!

Battle for the title of "Most Intolerant"
Christian Fundamentalists VS. Muslim Fundamentalists

In this corner, we have the Christian fundamentalists! Known for their inhumane tactics of forced conversion throughout history, these guys have a lot of experience going for them. In fact, their track record goes back more then a millennium and they have many crusades to back it up. In addition, these guys have an excellent record of cruelty under the guise of love and peace. Their ideological leader, Jesus, has had more people die in his name than any other person, a feat even Adolf Hitler couldn't outdo! Furthermore, Nazi torture tactics were inspired from these very people! With people like George W. Bush and the Pope along with other rabid psycopaths all over the world making up for their ignorance and lack of intelligence in general, this is one heavy hitting group that's going to be hard to beat!

And in the other corner, the Muslim fundamentalists! A relatively young and hot blooded newcomer who's been showing a lot of promise. These guys may not have as many people as the Christians but their brutally efficient tactics and die-hard devotion more than makes up for it. Cunning strategy and relatively superior intelligence to the Christians has proven them well against their rivals. The Muslims fundamentalists even have a better PR front, showing a stronger sense of unity that's been raking in converts from Christianity. All these recent achievements have been showing a lot of promise in toppling the Christians at their own game. As exemplified by figures like Osama bin-Laden, these guys are ready to give the Christians a run for their money.

You have the two largest idealistically intolerant groups vying for competing interests and you didn't see this coming?

stigermorgan
09-16-2006, 07:23 PM
i think these two cuz a massive brawl both is very sensitive.whatever can we just put aside that religion and be peace for a while it seems they didnt get bored fighting each other.but really pope maybe shown his true face by saying that or maybe he already to say so its rather unbelieveable a speech from a pope didnt being checked for sensitivity like insulting another religion.i think rome should open a department to handle every of popo's speech

Karis Fra Mauro
09-16-2006, 07:27 PM
Eh, you'd think Muslim activists have more important things to worry about. Stalin put it best when told that the Vatican had declared it's opposition to him. "So, how many armoured divisions does the pope have?" I paraphrase of course ;) This is getting to be an annual event. Maybe it's like the islamic answer to Mardi Gras? Most of the fun things are outlawed in Islam already, getting worked up over something irrelevant is probably one of the few ways left to blow off steam without the local dictator's secret police taking violent exception to said activities.

Seyser Koze
09-16-2006, 10:03 PM
This is the pope who was supposed to be looking for better relations with Islam. The original context of the quotes was basically explaining how religious people should not act irrationally (such as, for example, by blowing themselves up in town squares, committing other acts of terrorism, etc.) Furthermore, it's pretty clear from the Pope's words that he was not the original author of them.

That said, he also should have been smart enough to know better than to do something like this.

And with that said... well, Muslims always come across as being more thin-skinned than most groups about this sort of thing, but they're not really that different from most other such groups in that there's a small but extremely vocal part of the population that goes ballistic at every little thing and gets everyone on their side stereotyped as idiots.

oink37
09-17-2006, 12:09 AM
The day the three religions of the book collide and die, I'll be a happy heathen.
As long as the troublemakers are killing among themselves, it's none of my concern.
Just be sure to stay in your dedicated churches, pawns, outside world is full of condoms and whatnot.

DoNotPause
09-17-2006, 12:11 AM
Seriously talking about holy war, did the Chrstians forget about their "Crusades" back in the middle ages.

Hassoon
09-17-2006, 01:43 AM
You mean the crusades started my Islam so they could posess the Christian cities of Jerusalem and Constantinople?

zer0kage
09-17-2006, 01:58 AM
I hope Satan mauls both sides and paint both religions red with blood and guts so that the followers of religion will open their eyes and see that the conflict should stop. They're both followers of god but they just differ in name I don't see why one should be superior over the other. Isn't it a sin to kill a fellow brother/sister who is also a follower of God? If they all believe in 1 God why do they fight as if they're believing in different Gods.

See how their actions contradict the teachings of the Holy scripts? They don't even deserve to hold the Holy books of their respective religions. If they're not happy with another religion they should either pretend it does not exist or just drop the religion and go away. Reallly the actions of religious followers are questionable whether they really take the religion more seriously. Religion is more than just a display of faith to the spiritual being.

MrWiseman
09-17-2006, 03:33 AM
Whoa, that really takes the cake... no wonder the Muslims are pissedRemember the pope quoted that, but he didn't say it was his personal opinion. Not that it would be not - so is mine, but he didn't officially claim that. The only thing the pope personally said is that he condemns the holy war, which anybody in his/her sane mind will agree with, though (some) muslims seem not to.


There the Christian church goes again, showcasing their immense and well-known intolerance toward other religionsWhat about islam? Cause this sure isn't tolerance.


This just shows once again that religion often only creates hate and intoleranceOf course it does, but this time, it's islam what's being hateful and intolerant. For one time, I can agree with what the pope said.



Maybe the pope misunderstood IslamI believe the people defending it to death are the ones who misunderstand it. Same goes for other religions.



Religion is the root of all evil.I am always amazed that muslims say they are a religion of peace and tolerance,then do everything they can do prove otherwise.The pope did nothing wrong,but he should have realized how intolerant muslims are and not made them.I wholeheartedly agree.



Step right up! It's the fight of the century, folks!
Battle for the title of "Most Intolerant"
Christian Fundamentalists VS. Muslim FundamentalistsEasy match; today's christian fundamentalists don't stand a chance.


In this corner, we have the Christian fundamentalists! Known for their inhumane tactics of forced conversion throughout history, these guys have a lot of experience going for them.and
Seriously talking about holy war, did the Chrstians forget about their "Crusades" back in the middle ages.
While I don't mean to specially defend christians, I must speak for them here. It's cheap and unfair to accuse today's christians for what yesterday's dead ones did. If we were to keep accusing new people for what their ancestors did, all of Europe would hate each other. We know better than to do that.

DoNotPause
09-17-2006, 04:19 AM
While I don't mean to specially defend christians, I must speak for them here. It's cheap and unfair to accuse today's christians for what yesterday's dead ones did. If we were to keep accusing new people for what their ancestors did, all of Europe would hate each other. We know better than to do that.
So what you saying in the not future we cannot blame the terrorists for starting a "holy war". Since we cannot blame the Christian's for Crusades now, we cannot blame other religions for start "holy wars" in the past.

Silver
09-17-2006, 04:46 AM
Well, its been too quiet after the cartoon-panic :roflmao: They just had to come up whit an excuse to go and blow up sh*t.

DK3411
09-17-2006, 07:27 AM
>_< Another wave stirs barely after the previous one dies away. Wtf is wrong with this world?

If there's anything the Vatican can learn, is that they should stick to the holy trinity: Conservative, Conservative, Conservative. That means they should just avoid shooting themselves in the foot with every wrongly-placed comment.

Lisa Hayes
09-17-2006, 08:01 AM
http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=13507853&src=rss/topNews

Pope "sorry" for offending Muslims

oink37
09-17-2006, 08:21 AM
I'm sorry I broke that vase of yours Lisa !

*proceeds to munches on the flower*

KidSteel
09-17-2006, 08:51 AM
I bet now the Vatican will employ some PR-guy who'll check every fart of the pope on possible hidden insults against the Muslim religion. :p

xaero
09-17-2006, 09:00 AM
This kinda things seem to happen over and over again.

Kazune
09-17-2006, 09:02 AM
Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and submission, as we are reminded constantly by the worldwide Muslim reaction whenever even a hint of criticism about their faith surfaces to the public eye.


Some Muslims in India burned an effigy of the pope, and many joined in protest marches[23]. 2000 Palestinians in Gaza City protested the Pope's statement on 15 September; a Greek Orthodox and an Anglican Church in Nablus were fire-bombed. A group called the Lions of Monotheism claimed responsibility for the attacks and said they were carried out to protest the pope's speech[24]. Palestinians bombed and engaged in shootings against five churches in the West Bank and Gaza.[25][26] Security has been discreetly stepped up around and inside the Vatican City, because of concerns about the possibility of acts of violence[27].

The Iraqi militia Jaish al-Mujahedin (Holy Warriors' Army) announced its intention to "destroy their cross in the heart of Rome… and to hit the Vatican."[28] A previously unknown Baghdad-based group, Kataab Ashbal Al Islam Al Salafi (Islamic Salafist Boy Scout Battalions) threatens to kill all Christians in Iraq if the Pope does not apologize to Mohammed in three days in front of the whole world.[29] A Somali cleric of the Islamic Council of Somalia has called for the Pope's assassination, urging Muslims to "hunt down the Pope for his barbaric statements"[30]

...How does that match?

Seyser Koze
09-17-2006, 09:40 AM
Anyone who cannot recognize the difference between religious extremists and the mainstream is a fool.

getter77
09-17-2006, 12:03 PM
Sigh...once again...remember kids:

Catholicism (whatever flavor) does not=Christianity. It is a schism with more in common with Baptists and Methodists than not. Aside from some long dead folk(perhaps some to this day...few if so), Christianity is a myriad of schisms....so please drop the blanket statements and learn some ancient history.

Anyone willing for a bloodbath to happen is, as usual, outta their damn minds and apparently holds much more in common with the "crazy violent fundamentalists" than they are under the impression of.

kingx11
09-17-2006, 12:13 PM
poor pop

he just wants some attention after a fair share of ignorance from the chiristians who do'nt give a damn about him


unlike musilms who truly love muhammed and will pay thier lives for him and for islam (my religion)


could you tell me a chiristian person who's willing to spare his life for the pope??

i don't think anyone can answer that

on the other hand I myself would spare my life if it was for islam-muhammed-allah


the result is: alqaeda is aiming for the vatican for the 1st time

they'v got NY how can they not get the vatican?

tomati
09-17-2006, 12:28 PM
Wow, great logic most of you are argumenting from. Saying Chirstianity(any shism) and Islam is just bad and shouldnt be practiced is just like saying scientists should be shot in the head because we all know that they invented the gun and the atom bomb, so no good could come of that right?

I guess some people just see the bad stuff of religion, forget all the benefitial stuff that it can ammount to. Like massive donations to various humane operations in the world, you know; giving school and water to poor africans and the like. Helping individuals overcome alcoholism and drug abuse, the list goes on. But I guess that doesnt count for anything when someone kills someone in the name of said deity.
What people need to grasp is that religion is one of the most used tools for abusing/killing people in the world. Its the people that use it in that way that needs a fat smack in the balls, not the religion in itself.

My 2 cents at least

Areskel
09-17-2006, 03:17 PM
...How does that match?
It doesn't, you just didn't read his punchline.

KingX1, the Pope is a figurehead, not a deity. Many Christians would die for Bog, but I doubt many would die for the Pope.

AVE IMPERATOR
09-17-2006, 03:27 PM
Wow, great logic most of you are argumenting from. Saying Chirstianity(any shism) and Islam is just bad and shouldnt be practiced is just like saying scientists should be shot in the head because we all know that they invented the gun and the atom bomb, so no good could come of that right?

I guess some people just see the bad stuff of religion, forget all the benefitial stuff that it can ammount to. Like massive donations to various humane operations in the world, you know; giving school and water to poor africans and the like. Helping individuals overcome alcoholism and drug abuse, the list goes on. But I guess that doesnt count for anything when someone kills someone in the name of said deity.
What people need to grasp is that religion is one of the most used tools for abusing/killing people in the world. Its the people that use it in that way that needs a fat smack in the balls, not the religion in itself.

My 2 cents at least

Yeah...they're a bunch of sweethearts--then again, they don't educate the people they give all that clean water and school to about sexual matters, nor do they give them condoms. It's not the people that matter, it's the souls--like a currency for them.

Bubblemonkey
09-17-2006, 04:13 PM
Pope Sorry for Reaction to His Remarks (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/17/AR2006091700178.html)

CASTEL GANDOLFO, Italy -- Pope Benedict XVI said Sunday that he was "deeply sorry" about the angry reaction to his recent remarks about Islam, which he said came from a text that did not reflect his personal opinion.

Despite the statement, protests and violence persisted across the Muslim world, with churches set ablaze in the West Bank and a hard-line Iranian cleric saying the pope was united with President Bush to "repeat the Crusades."

An Italian nun also was gunned down in a Somali hospital where she worked, and the Vatican expressed concern that the attack was related to the outrage over the pope's remarks.
Just can't satisfy the idiots, can you? :rolleyes:

The people still making a stink obviously just want to stir up trouble instead of listening to reason.

ChaozXIII
09-17-2006, 04:15 PM
told you they are still going to riot, nice going pope.

Bubblemonkey
09-17-2006, 04:25 PM
You know there are a bunch of people looking at this and wondering "If Islam is really a religion of peace, then why all the violence in response to a few remarks that were simply quoted from a book and taken out of context?"

Add to that the very necessary question, "If all this violence is being perpetrated by only the hardline fundamentalist fringe of Islam, where's the condemnation and the anger from the rest of the Islamic world? Why aren't they doing anything to try and quell the violence?"

Seriously, we hear a lot of people in the Muslim community complaining about how the west bashes Islam and doesn't really understand it, but we aren't really getting any assistance on their part in changing that view when the hardliners who incite this violence seem to be able to do it with little or no opposition from the rest of the Islamic world. If you don't condone violence, then speak up when people do violence in your name! If you want people to change their minds about Islam, show people that there are people who follow Islam who AREN'T burning churches and synagogues at the slightest provocation. Show people that you're willing to stand up to the crazies who perform acts of violence in your name. Wake the F**K up!

AVE IMPERATOR
09-17-2006, 04:41 PM
^ I agree with that. The only condemnation that seems to come from the moderates is when they are condemned for not calling for reason, and then, they're only condeming those who question their actions (or lack thereof)

Mai Tokiha
09-17-2006, 06:30 PM
Step right up! It's the fight of the century, folks!

Battle for the title of "Most Intolerant"
Christian Fundamentalists VS. Muslim Fundamentalists
In this corner, we have the Christian fundamentalists! Known for their inhumane tactics of forced conversion throughout history, these guys have a lot of experience going for them. In fact, their track record goes back more then a millennium and they have many crusades to back it up. In addition, these guys have an excellent record of cruelty under the guise of love and peace. Their ideological leader, Jesus, has had more people die in his name than any other person, a feat even Adolf Hitler couldn't outdo! Furthermore, Nazi torture tactics were inspired from these very people! With people like George W. Bush and the Pope along with other rabid psycopaths all over the world making up for their ignorance and lack of intelligence in general, this is one heavy hitting group that's going to be hard to beat!

And in the other corner, the Muslim fundamentalists! A relatively young and hot blooded newcomer who's been showing a lot of promise. These guys may not have as many people as the Christians but their brutally efficient tactics and die-hard devotion more than makes up for it. Cunning strategy and relatively superior intelligence to the Christians has proven them well against their rivals. The Muslims fundamentalists even have a better PR front, showing a stronger sense of unity that's been raking in converts from Christianity. All these recent achievements have been showing a lot of promise in toppling the Christians at their own game. As exemplified by figures like Osama bin-Laden, these guys are ready to give the Christians a run for their money.
You have the two largest idealistically intolerant groups vying for competing interests and you didn't see this coming?
:lol: That's straight to the point - we have to rabid bulldogs getting at each other http://www.hongfire.com/forum/images/smilies/cs/xd.gif
Too bad that the the muslim bulldog sometimes aimlessly attacks others who are not involved in the fight...

BradWong
09-18-2006, 05:13 AM
At first I couldn't believe it... And yeah lot's of protest have been seen more lately since that speech.

MrWiseman
09-18-2006, 06:09 AM
So what you saying in the not future we cannot blame the terrorists for starting a "holy war".If there's one way to misinterpret everything I said, you hit it :) . If the terrorists descendents, two generations in the future, stop being bloodthirsty beasts, then we should not blame them; it's today's terrorists who did the wrong thing and are to blame.


Since we cannot blame the Christian's for Crusades nowWe cannot blame today's christians for something they did not do. This is freaking basic; I'm surprised I have to explain it, and even more that I have to repeat it as much as I hate it because I don't enjoy defending religious people; but crusades is something today's christians are not to blame for. Of course, the ones to blame were past christians. The dead ones. I walk on their graves as I laugh, etc. But they are not the ones who call themselves christians today.



They just had to come up whit an excuse to go and blow up sh*t.Exactly. They're almost waiting for something they could misinterpret and get offended at. Plus, they are ridiculously easy to offend.



Pope "sorry" for offending MuslimsActually, he's sorry that they misunderstood him and reacted fiercely and murderously. Not sorry for offending muslims because he didn't really offend them... except the holy wars ones, who, judging from the protests, seem to be numerous.



Anyone who cannot recognize the difference between religious extremists and the mainstream is a fool.This is true, but you forgot to define what's "mainstream", and you forgot to take a look at the extremists vs. non-violent ratio.



could you tell me a chiristian person who's willing to spare his life for the pope??Fortunately, nobody's stupid enough to do that. On top of that, "spare his life" sounds more like crashing a plane against a skyscraper or bombing yourself in a school. That's... not exactly honourable, you see.


on the other hand I myself would spare my life if it was for islam-muhammed-allahReally, man. Think about it. If you get killed, it's game over. It's of little worth giving your life for something if you're not to enjoy it because you're dead. And don't buy what they tell you about some dozen virgins or whatever; you ain't getting them because your penis stays in the grave. I'm actually bothering to say this for your sake; think for yourself and do what you need and want, not what others want you to.


alqaeda is aiming for the vatican for the 1st timeSo islam is just untouchable? You can't say a tiny bad thing about islam because al crapeda will bomb the heck out of you? Wow, what a religion of peace.



I guess some people just see the bad stuff of religion, forget all the benefitial stuff that it can ammount to.Oops, sorry, I forgot religion is extremely benefitial to religious leaders and bishops.


giving school and water to poor africans and the likeThe church has an immense amount of treasury, yet it requests that poor people donate money so they can give it to the third world. It's not their money they're giving, it's poor commoners who donate, and the church who receives the glory.



An Italian nun also was gunned down in a Somali hospital where she workedPeace peace lol :(

zer0kage
09-18-2006, 06:22 AM
I'm totally with Mr Wiseman here.

However I think that the teachings of the religion are not bad (however some are worth defending against though) but the so called fanatics of the religion are. Seriously religions teach love and harmony not to hate and conquer. Why can't people especially the extremists see that? If they really love their religion then just live their religious life peacefully and keep it within their sphere.

I'm using the term religion because both sides are ridden with weeds of people who needs to be uprooted. Somebody needs to start an 'evil' religion, wreckhavoc and hopefully the 2 so called holy religions will open their eyes which will hjopefully cause them too cooperate and attack the 'evil' religion and hopefully through this cooperation they realize what benefits acceptance can bring. They should be aware that their teachings does not say 'You will shed your blood or others for God or whatever.' If they want to fight a war, fight against real evil not for the rights of religion A over B.

It's pretty strategic of terorrists to use their 'religious' excuses too. Think about it the more atrocious acts are commited by these scum the more the non followers will stereotype the followers of that religion as scum even the innocent folowers will be affected. This will increase the hatred will increase from these followers to the point they themselves get so pissed off and motivated to start a war.

I really think people use their religion as an easy route to multiply their self centered rights and expand their sphere of influence.

kingx11
09-18-2006, 10:37 AM
Fortunately, nobody's stupid enough to do that. On top of that, "spare his life" sounds more like crashing a plane against a skyscraper or bombing yourself in a school. That's... not exactly honourable, you see.

Really, man. Think about it. If you get killed, it's game over. It's of little worth giving your life for something if you're not to enjoy it because you're dead. And don't buy what they tell you about some dozen virgins or whatever; you ain't getting them because your penis stays in the grave. I'm actually bothering to say this for your sake; think for yourself and do what you need and want, not what others want you to.

So islam is just untouchable? You can't say a tiny bad thing about islam because al crapeda will bomb the heck out of you? Wow, what a religion of peace.



do you see what i meant

we love our prophet to death because we have somthing real called islam unlike you people who don't give a damn about anything but yourselfs

go on keep fooling around in life

hopfully i'll get into allah's heaven and i may not get the virigns because heaven is good enough for a normal immortal


islam is a religion of peace BUT do you see what your people do to us in iraq-iran-afghanstan-africa

and you want us to keep sayin' we'r peacful and hate violence??

don't use the terror-bombing excuse on me it's getting old

you may not know what your people do because they don't tell you but i know a lot that keep hunting me everytime i think about USA

i don't hate you people but you'r presidnets do and they made us hate you

so in the next few years it's gonna be really ugly specially after what the (poop) say last week

Hassoon
09-18-2006, 10:53 AM
It will get real ugly for awhile then Islam will be exterminated and things will get better.

Skorzeny
09-18-2006, 11:16 AM
Hey Kingx11,
I've always wondered about that virgin thing. How does it work? How many virgins do you get for killing an infidel? Is it a point system where you get more virgins for every infidel you kill? And do you get extra virgins for killing yourself in the process? What if you just blow yourself up but dont kill anyone else? Is that suicide or do you get virgins just for trying? And what kind of infidels have the highest priority, men, women, or children? Is killing jewish infidels worth more virgins than christian or hindu infidels?

And lets say that you die without killing any infidels of say, old age. Do you get a door prize in heaven like a hot chick who is not a virgin? And what happens to all of the terrorist's virgins once they've had sex? Do they then get passed on to those in heaven who never killed anyone? What about women suicide bombers? Do they get male virgins?

kingx11
09-18-2006, 12:09 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
are you done??

Hassoon
09-18-2006, 12:09 PM
The punchline is the virgins are goats lol.

dragon001
09-18-2006, 12:32 PM
man, well everybody should know that Christians and most religions groups are,

"if its not our religion, your going hell"

the pope knew what he was doing, trying to make a divide among religions.

anyways most Muslims (in the middle east) don't know anything other then violence, ppl forget what they see'ing is what happens most to most religions

Most ppl think that most Muslims are extremists, which is sad (and no i'm not a Muslim)

Skorzeny
09-18-2006, 03:43 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
are you done??

No I have more

Lets say that I'm a terrorist and I blow myself up but only manage to injure infidels. Is that worth a virgin, or does it only count if they are dead? And if it does count, do I get more points in heaven if they are serious injuries? I would think that I deserve a prettier virgin if I blow off some limbs as opposed to say, cuts and bruises.

And Hassoon: If you've been a very good terrorist you get your choice of virgin: goat or camel

Hassoon
09-18-2006, 04:34 PM
Ah so thats how it works you seem to have a good grasp of Islam.

Kerii
09-18-2006, 04:52 PM
Somebody just kill the pope already. If we're going to have WWIII, then just get on with it and let it run its course.

Hopefully camel land and jesus land will wipe eachother out and we'll be free of both their bullshit.

Castro I can at least somewhat tolerate, he just wants to play king on his little island.

Hayeate
09-18-2006, 05:07 PM
I'm not trying to defend Christianity. There were Crusades, the Inquisition and other horrible crap Christians committed over the ages. But what separates Moslem fanatics from Christian fanatics is that the latter became extinct in Western society 500 years ago. Islamo-fascism however, is growing ever stronger today.


Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

These true words were spoken a Byzantine emperor, Manuel Paleologus. Christianity, despite all of its drawbacks, introduced an entire new line of thought and morals that was not known before. Islam on the other hand only borrowed most of its ideas from other religions, while adding its own elements of radical morality and a constrictive codex of living. Back in the 7th century AD, religion was an effective tool in the hand of a Bedouin warlord to inspire his followers to fight his enemies with fanatic zeal, and at the same time imposing his absolute rule over those he conquered, backed by a divine premise in the form of the Islamic shariat.

I won't deny that at its highest peak of religious indoctrination in around 1200 AD, you could say the same things about Christianity. However we must understand that this occurred during the Middle Ages. Not now, but 800 years ago, when Europe was still in a completely barbaric state, lacking in morals and education. In comparison, the Islamic world was reasonably more civilized at that time.

This is the problem we're facing here. Islam has advanced little in its theological beliefs for the past millenia. It's still living in the dark age, where such conceptions as tolerance and the value of a human life have not been developed.

Mai Tokiha
09-18-2006, 05:23 PM
Somebody just kill the pope already.
Would be nice, but there would be still too much braindead cardinals left, and one of them would quickly be the next pope, so there would really nothing won there...
You would actually need to carpet bomb their seat in the Vatican so that the pope along with all cardinals go to hell :grin:
Hey there, terrorists, wouldn't that be a really rewarding target for your next bombing? :grin:

Skorzeny
09-18-2006, 05:32 PM
I bet you would get a lot of virgins for killing the pope. He's King Infidel, much much worse than osama bin laden.

Bubblemonkey
09-18-2006, 08:17 PM
She makes a good point...

Enough Apologies (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/18/AR2006091800992.html)


But Western reactions to Muslim "days of anger" have followed a familiar pattern, too. Last winter, some Western newspapers defended their Danish colleagues, even going so far as to reprint the cartoons -- but others, including the Vatican, attacked the Danes for giving offense. Some leading Catholics have now defended the pope -- but others, no doubt including some Danes, have complained that his statement should have been better vetted, or never given at all. This isn't surprising: By definition, the West is not monolithic. Left-leaning journalists don't identify with right-leaning colleagues (or right-leaning Catholic colleagues), and vice versa. Not all Christians, let alone all Catholics -- even all German Catholics -- identify with the pope either, and certainly they don't want to defend his every scholarly quotation.

Unfortunately, these subtle distinctions are lost on the fanatics who torch embassies and churches. And they may also be preventing all of us from finding a useful response to the waves of anti-Western anger and violence that periodically engulf parts of the Muslim world. Clearly, a handful of apologies and some random public debate -- should the pope have said X, should the Danish prime minister have done Y -- are ineffective and irrelevant: None of the radical clerics accepts Western apologies, and none of their radical followers reads the Western press. Instead, Western politicians, writers, thinkers and speakers should stop apologizing -- and start uniting.

By this, I don't mean that we all need to rush to defend or to analyze this particular sermon; I leave that to experts on Byzantine theology. But we can all unite in our support for freedom of speech -- surely the pope is allowed to quote from medieval texts -- and of the press. And we can also unite, loudly, in our condemnation of violent, unprovoked attacks on churches, embassies and elderly nuns. By "we" I mean here the White House, the Vatican, the German Greens, the French Foreign Ministry, NATO, Greenpeace, Le Monde and Fox News -- Western institutions of the left, the right and everything in between. True, these principles sound pretty elementary -- "we're pro-free speech and anti-gratuitous violence" -- but in the days since the pope's sermon, I don't feel that I've heard them defended in anything like a unanimous chorus. A lot more time has been spent analyzing what the pontiff meant to say, or should have said, or might have said if he had been given better advice.

icie
09-18-2006, 11:06 PM
Interestingly, most people 'commenting' on this issue haven't even seen or heard the full text of the speech (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html). (Look at this link for an informed summary (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/newsroom/chi-060918pope-excerpt,1,7033355.story?coll=chi-news-hed))

My contention is that yes, the Pope's choice of material to quote was not exactly a genius decision, but also that his words have been taken out of context.

1) IT WAS A QUOTE (and even the quote was taken out of context in terms of the original text it came from -- it was meant by the Emperor to be especially forceful to bring a point across, before moderating it with reasoned arguments).
2) It was a quote in the context of expressing the incompatibility of religion (or at least a God-centric religion) with violence.

Basically, it was a speech which said that stuff like Crusades or Jihads which used violence and war to spread religions are incompatible with the nature of the God which these religions worshipped. A simple concept that most of us today would accept.

Criticisms of the Pope engaging in "fundie"-mongering should moderate themselves by looking at all the facts first.

Fact is, everyone is misunderstanding and over-reacting: a sure sign of fundamentalist attitude.

Drakron
09-18-2006, 11:25 PM
I'm not trying to defend Christianity. There were Crusades, the Inquisition and other horrible crap Christians committed over the ages. But what separates Moslem fanatics from Christian fanatics is that the latter became extinct in Western society 500 years ago.
...

Ha Ha.

I guess you missed the Goa inquisition ... and a lot of stuff (I am more that happy to provide those dates)

If you said around the start of the 19th century you would be somewhat right since western sociaty moved into a non-religious humanitary movement but even so Darwin theory of evolution was not exactly welcomed.

Dont defend hypocrities as the Holy Roman Church, if there is a God that is exactly as they said you can bet they are in Hell.

MrWiseman
09-19-2006, 06:13 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with Hayeate's nice, +1 Informative post:
I'm not trying to defend Christianity. There were Crusades, the Inquisition and other horrible crap Christians committed over the ages. But what separates Moslem fanatics from Christian fanatics is that the latter became extinct in Western society 500 years ago. Islamo-fascism however, is growing ever stronger today.


These true words were spoken a Byzantine emperor, Manuel Paleologus. Christianity, despite all of its drawbacks, introduced an entire new line of thought and morals that was not known before. Islam on the other hand only borrowed most of its ideas from other religions, while adding its own elements of radical morality and a constrictive codex of living. Back in the 7th century AD, religion was an effective tool in the hand of a Bedouin warlord to inspire his followers to fight his enemies with fanatic zeal, and at the same time imposing his absolute rule over those he conquered, backed by a divine premise in the form of the Islamic shariat.

I won't deny that at its highest peak of religious indoctrination in around 1200 AD, you could say the same things about Christianity. However we must understand that this occurred during the Middle Ages. Not now, but 800 years ago, when Europe was still in a completely barbaric state, lacking in morals and education. In comparison, the Islamic world was reasonably more civilized at that time.

This is the problem we're facing here. Islam has advanced little in its theological beliefs for the past millenia. It's still living in the dark age, where such conceptions as tolerance and the value of a human life have not been developed.


I also agree with most of the points made in the "Enough Apologies" article.

noooooooob
09-19-2006, 07:37 AM
i wonder what will happen with the muslim world when they'll run out of oil in the future and loose the major factor that allows them to manipulate western countries and act like kings.

Silver
09-19-2006, 08:15 AM
Actually, im seeing this as a positive thing: It shows how muslim-mentality is not suited for sustained development of society. They can bomb a couple of planes of trains, but they will never be a serious threat to the sivilized world. Once oil becomes obsolete, that sandpit will be forgotten and its inhabitants, unable to get their **** together and develop, will just keep on hanging on each other`s throats and eventually die.

kingx11
09-19-2006, 10:01 AM
i can go on & on about this but it seems to me that there's no use of talkin' more about this


dragon001 said somthing kinda true

"if its not our religion, your going hell"

alright this is what every religion tells thier followers to do and here's the diffrence

the true islamic way is to fight the infiedls as long as they keep stealing-killing-raping-invading our lands wich they still do a long time ago

but if the infiedls didn't tuoch us and they were peaceful we don't attack them or bother but we will invite them to islam because our religion isn't about killing every human who was born not-muslim no it's about telling people to get into islam and be a servants to allah

in-case they don't wanna be muslims there's two choices in our religion

1-war to death ((killing only men warriros not women and kids and elderly like what's happening in iraq-palstine))

2-the gezeia wich is in eng is paying taxes for living peacfully and being good nighboors to us and how much are we talkin' about?? only 5% of what money your country grow on this land



so if you get back to the bottom of the whole thing it's like this

((they killed our people for no reason and raped our women we should kill them the way they killed our people))

this is why the civilans all over the world gets killed for the same reason even if they didn't do anything

it's going back to thier leadrs who'll feel the pain of losing normal people for no reason


think about how many poor kids got killed by the israeli army and the u.s army in iraq in both wars

don't you think that we do this because of what your leaders did to us??


for the 4th time it's not your fault it's your leadres fault as long as they keep doin' the same thing it's getting uglier everytime

read history books in the internet not in your libraries and you'll see how wrong this whole thing got misunderstood

Silver
09-19-2006, 11:47 AM
So what you`re saying is that if an infidel wants to live in an islamic country, he has 3 options: Convert to islam, pay taxes for being an infidel (wtf) or die. How does this go whit today`s globalizing world where cultures mix and people just need to get along? It is islam`s inflexibility that makes it isolate it`s followers from the multicultural environment and when somebody steps on their toes (which IS inevitable in such environment), it calls for jihad.

Some people see this as islam vs. cristianity or whatever, i see it as islam vs common sense.

kingx11
09-19-2006, 11:51 AM
^^^^^^^^^
go back and read it again

Silver
09-19-2006, 12:35 PM
I readed it several times and the content stayed the same. So islamic countries enforce somekind of "infidel tax" on all non muslims? Do you see anything wrong in that?

Ah, f*ck this.... The rest of the world goes on while middle east is staying in this never neverending loop of blame game where all trouble and misfortune always seem to come from outside. It`s getting really old.

blargoz
09-19-2006, 01:18 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI_Islam_controversy


“We are faced with a media-driven phenomenon bordering on the absurd... If the game consists in unleashing the crowd’s vindictiveness on words that it has not understood, then the conditions for dialogue with Islam are no longer met.”

After reading the statement in context, there shouldn't have been any issue to begin with. The media was irresponsible with providing a context to the quote, allowing this BS to stir up. And this isn't an issue of religion, this is mob psychology. You see this when you see when you have groups protesting at G8 summits, or at Bush when they understand none of the issues whatsoever (http://brain-terminal.com/posts/category/video/) (not saying that there aren't issues to protest against, but protesting out of ignorance is despicable).

So then we come back to the same old circlejerk discussions of "religion, lol". There will always be people who will justify their perverse acts with whatever medium they can use. Religion tends to take a lot of flak, because it's a popular vehicle for abuse. Pay attention to the people who hijack the vehicle. If religion fell out of fashion as a means of manipulating the masses, those people would just as easily go for any secular ideology to continue their cause.

Bubblemonkey
09-19-2006, 01:51 PM
so if you get back to the bottom of the whole thing it's like this

((they killed our people for no reason and raped our women we should kill them the way they killed our people))

this is why the civilans all over the world gets killed for the same reason even if they didn't do anything

it's going back to thier leadrs who'll feel the pain of losing normal people for no reason


think about how many poor kids got killed by the israeli army and the u.s army in iraq in both wars

don't you think that we do this because of what your leaders did to us??

So wait...you're justifying the killing of innocents because some innocent muslims were killed? You're saying the terrorists bombing innocent civilians is REASONABLE in your eyes?

And I'm with Silver in that the way you explain it makes it seem like the only options for non-muslims is pay an infidel tax, convert to Islam, or die. Not exactly the type of mentality that breeds trust and understanding among people who think differently than you do...

Starkadder
09-19-2006, 03:06 PM
in-case they don't wanna be muslims there's two choices in our religion

1-war to death ((killing only men warriros not women and kids and elderly like what's happening in iraq-palstine))

2-the gezeia wich is in eng is paying taxes for living peacfully and being good nighboors to us and how much are we talkin' about?? only 5% of what money your country grow on this land


How nice, you have to pay a bribe, so that they will allow you to live. Mind you, you need to tell them that suicide bombers kill men, women, and children. They seem to have forgotten that little fact.



think about how many poor kids got killed by the israeli army and the u.s army in iraq in both wars


Yes, think about the kids. All the Kurdish children that were gassed to death by Iraq, all the Iranian children that were shelled to death by Iraq, and let

Hassoon
09-19-2006, 03:39 PM
Not to mention all the kids killed in the Iran Iraq war,the fact is muslims kill more muslims than anyone on earth.Rushdies book the Satanic Verses hit the nail right on the head.So when i hear fools talk about the U.S. or Israel killing muslims i laugh at the sheer hypocricy.

Skorzeny
09-19-2006, 10:56 PM
Thats right, the only thing muslims hate more than infidels is each other.

And Kingx11, do you know how ridiculous that little offer of yours sounds? Become a muslim or pay a tax or fight to the death. Most westerners would tell you to take your little offer and shove it right up your ass. No one is going to pay protection money for not being a muslim. Also, if you are a shia muslim and you kill a sunni muslim, does that get you a virgin in heaven?

kingx11
09-19-2006, 11:03 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
if a muslim killed you then don't wonder why did he do it

at least we don't rape women like your scumbags in iraq-palstine

and no i'm not a shia i'm a sunni following the prophet muhammed

shia's are loaded up with crap go ahead and kill them if you don't we will

because they curse you in iran while they take photos and trade with you in the dark

the enemy you know better than the enemy you don't

zer0kage
09-20-2006, 12:32 AM
HEED THIS POST.


I live in a muslim country myself and all the muslim people here are great. Especially the royal family. They're open minded and very friendly. Lots of the local muslims and middle eastern muslims in my school are nice people too. The Sultan of my country emphasizes that Islam is purely a religion of peace. I'm Chinese and we're considered 2nd class but does the Sultan and his family cares? No. In fact some of the higherups in Brunei are Chinese because they're welcomed there through effort and contribution to the country. Plus they're not Muslims. If they are I would be one by now through your way of thinking kingx11. See. I'd rather keep it within the sphere and let people come to us. If we want to make offers we should not do it so forcefully.

The terrorists imo are a bunch of posers and absurdly dangerous fanatics. Does the Quran says that you have to conquer and destroy the world? Does the Quran says that the one whole world should be a Muslim world? If it is not mentioned then it is a no but if it is a mention then it is a yes. For the former case kingx11 there are Muslims out there who are living happy lives in will developed foreign countries. For the latter I'm sorry but humanity's achievements has come this far and it must be defended well. Peace in 3/4 of the world is a VERY difficult thing to achieve and a World War will render all centuries of hard work to waste.

If you ask me the problem with the USA's method of things is that they do it so large scaled and straight forward with their BIG guns and BIG weapons that innocents will be mauled in the process. This will cause more angry people to lash out for the use of force. If they know how the enemy thinks better then they would have resorted to smarter means of combat which can help fish out the scum followers and leave the innocents intact. That is the smart thing about these guerillas they just go undetected and BOOM critical target destroyed. Look at the war in Vietnam and you see why.

I wholeheartedly agree that a man like Saddam does not deserve power though. Why I mention him? He is practically evil nothing more than that other than evil.

Silver
09-20-2006, 12:45 AM
at least we don't rape women like your scumbags in iraq-palstine

You know why? Because, if i remember correctly, rape victims need to come up whit 2 MALE witnesses to prove she was raped. If she doesnt and still accuses a man for raping her, she`ll get the death sentence (by stoning?). It`s not like rape doesnt happen there, its just that they dont get reported.

kingx11
09-20-2006, 01:36 AM
^^^^^^^^^^
i said we don't i didn't say it didn't happen

there's true & fake muslims


the true ones don't rape and if i remmber correctly in pakistan a guy raped a women and instead of killing him ((wich is the victim's choise)) they raped his sister by a gruop of the victim girls realtives

like 15 men in one day

do you think this is right??

isn't killing him better??

islam won't let such a thing happen the true way is to let the victim choose between two

1-excute the guy-so other perverts won't do it and scare them

2- forgive him and let god take his punishment on him in the judgment day


we muslims don't need 2 witneeses to tell us an infiedl rape a teenager girl
just the way we'll react is to kill the man who did it instead of rape his family who has nothing to do with it

if you did rape his family then your going way down to hell with that guy


raping in islam is forbbiden what so ever


and by the way

the rules usa put on the law don't apply on us ((just like israel think but we'r not pigs like them))

no law apply on us but the law of islam but sadly some people are trying to put thier law on us wich is hard to do


ZERO

even if you came to my country we won't kill you as long as you'r peaceful we'll treat u the same way

did we fire americans and busted them for no reason when usa did that 2001??

no pecause those people are innocent and not dumbasses like the ones in the white house
and i'll tell a good news from here

more than 100 infeidel convert to islam by thier well since 1996 here because of the nice treament they saw between muslims

let's see why:

racism between races? nope
payin' taxes for the government for LAME reasons ? only in half muslims countries because it's forbidden to take money from muslim people unless they want to

bribes? your hand will get cut off if you did it- same thing with stealing anything

hit on other people's families and women like they'r *****s? you'll get killed 90% by that family's man and he will be right

annoying your nighbor and curse him even if he's annoying? nope you talk to him nicely to stop annoy you because being a good nighbor is one of islam's traditions and not only your nighbor alone even the 7th farest nighbor from you deserve the same treatment from you


this is not deep enough about our religion it's the surfase for you since it was hard to explain to you our belives



and could we stop it it's really going no where you won't like what i'm sayin' and i won't like your excuses about what you were talkin' about because it didn't came from you exactly

it came from the media who feed u wrong info's



see ya

zer0kage
09-20-2006, 01:48 AM
I see where you're heading there kingx. So you're saying these so called 'infidels' do not respect and appreciate the Muslim culture and instead 'enforce' their own is it?

If you ask me if people wholeheartedly take in the religion to their lives then of course they have the right to protect it along with it's customs provided that they don't enforce it on others who are not willing.

Bubblemonkey
09-20-2006, 01:59 AM
@kingx11: I'm having serious trouble understanding what you're trying to say, because you're bouncing around from one thing to another without really finishing a thread of thought. Are you saying that all a woman has to do is to say an infidel raped her to get you guys to kill him? Zero proof required?

And how far does your "good neighbor" schtick extend if your neighbor is a shia? You don't seem to have any qualms about getting someone else to kill them... What about if your neighbor is an infidel? Do they rate higher than a shia, or lower? And what if your neighbor was an Israeli? How far does your "good neighbors to even the 7th farthest neighbor" fit in, there? Do you see how an outside observer can look and that and think it somewhat hypocritical?

And you still haven't answered the questions from before...do you think the terrorists are justfied for killing non-muslims because muslims were killed (your previous posts pretty much say that, but I wanted you to clarify incase it was misunderstood)? And, how was Silver's interpretation of the whole "Infidel" tax thing wrong?

Seriously, what's the point of getting angry with us for misunderstanding Islam if you don't bother answering any of our questions regarding claims you've made about Islam?

kingx11
09-20-2006, 02:37 AM
@kingx11: I'm having serious trouble understanding what you're trying to say, because you're bouncing around from one thing to another without really finishing a thread of thought. Are you saying that all a woman has to do is to say an infidel raped her to get you guys to kill him? Zero proof required?

?

because i'm one and ahead of me a lot of qustions so i may not concetrate a lot

well if the crminal is a muslim there's some reactions but we don't have to go there

if he's an infidel how did he get her? because normaly muslims women don't go near infidels by there own except that the infidel jumped on her and that's how we get him

but we will lestin to him after all he might have something to say or a proof that she was liying

if she had a witneeses that's better then we don't need him to say much unless the judge was kind enugh to hear him



And how far does your "good neighbor" schtick extend if your neighbor is a shia? You don't seem to have any qualms about getting someone else to kill them... What about if your neighbor is an infidel? Do they rate higher than a shia, or lower? And what if your neighbor was an Israeli? How far does your "good neighbors to even the 7th farthest neighbor" fit in, there? Do you see how an outside observer can look and that and think it somewhat hypocritical?


well a shia to us are much worse than a jew or any kind of infidel
because they obey allah but they hate muhammed wich is insane to think of
so they hate us a lot and one of thier traditions is to kill all sunnis because they belivie in muhammed not ali there prophet wich is muhammed's younger cosin and one of his early followers and they have a lot of bad tradidtions we don't wanna get into and thos traditions mislead the world about islam


if my nighbour was israeli?

muhammed the prophet himself had an israeli-jewish nighbours and he was the best nighbour to them because thy'r nice to him and his family even though that israeli family was one of a few falilies in mecca at the time while the rest are all muslims

no one tuoched them because muhammed told them " as long as they live in peace we treat them the same" and people did so but they still hated them
by the way those jews where paying the geizia (i mentioned it earlier) wich made muhammed respected them because they respected his rules or i should say allah rules on nighbours

shortly after they moved out and when muhammed visited them in thier full-jewish twon they tried to throw a huge rock on him but they missed because allah send him an inspiration to move from the spot he was resting on and when moved and looked up they were pushing it from top
that's when a short was started and ended when the jews asked for the geizia rule so they can live in peace and grow more population





And you still haven't answered the questions from before...do you think the terrorists are justfied for killing non-muslims because muslims were killed (your previous posts pretty much say that, but I wanted you to clarify incase it was misunderstood)? And, how was Silver's interpretation of the whole "Infidel" tax thing wrong?

i did'nt understand this one correctly but i think your saying why those terrorist's reason's are because non-muslims are killng muslims ??

yes it's true you should treat them the way they treated you
and if you went too far ...... read this

the infiedls in the judgmentday before they drooped into hell they'll tell allah that one of his slaves mistreated them and did to them more than they did to him

allah will punish that muslim for killing or misbehaving for no reason because it's non of his right to do that so this is why we should treat yor armies the same way the treated us and our innocent people but without violating islams rules


and silvers interption about the tax ?? i'm sure i replied to that i can't remmeber (too much going in 'n' out lol)




Seriously, what's the point of getting angry with us for misunderstanding Islam if you don't bother answering any of our questions regarding claims you've made about Islam?




i was angry because some of you made a joke about it while i was all serious
and i did answer some of the quistions because they sounded serious not silly
also i didn't made anything about islam i was telling you the truth



so are we done yet?

kingx11
09-20-2006, 02:48 AM
I see where you're heading there kingx. So you're saying these so called 'infidels' do not respect and appreciate the Muslim culture and instead 'enforce' their own is it?
.

that's right i think

islam is not inforce you is to tell about islam and how good is it

if you like your welcome if you don't there's the choices you have to choose from

so it's left or right nothing in between


we won't bother u ever if you didn't ((i can't remmber we did actually unless someone else started it ))

we'll trade with you and visit you sometimes like good nighbours and that's how europe survive 800 years ago the choosed the geizia and lived until they got stronger and the muslims leards weakend that when they invaded them and since then we all know what happend to islam and the other religions

MrWiseman
09-20-2006, 06:35 AM
i wonder what will happen with the muslim world when they'll run out of oil in the future and loose the major factor that allows them to manipulate western countries and act like kings.Exactly, as well as other oil countries. I'm so waiting for oil to run out. It'll be an economic crisis for a few years, but it'll be so good for all countries (minus the ones blackmailing us and our crappy oil corporations which I want to see fold) and so good for the environment and so good for technology development.



in-case they don't wanna be muslims there's two choices in our religion

1-war to death ((killing only men warriros not women and kids and elderly like what's happening in iraq-palstine))

2-the gezeia wich is in eng is paying taxes for living peacfully and being good nighboors to us and how much are we talkin' about?? only 5% of what money your country grow on this landLol, talk about blackmail and "religion of peace". How generous you are, we are allowed to live without converting if we pay you enough. This is called terrorism. I'm not paying to islam; I'd rather spend 20% on defense against the islamic blackmail than sending 0.1% of my money to al qaeda. No charity either, charity goes for people I like, and I don't like people threatening to kill me if I don't pay. And BTW, you're free to make as much money as we do too, only you don't do it properly because of religion and crappy leaders. We should just stop using oil and completely close our frontiers, technology, standards and markets to islamic countries, so they can stay in their middle age while the rest of the world develops.


think about how many poor kids got killed by the israeli army and the u.s army in iraq in both warsSo the Palestinian never kill kids, huh? I believe they were the first to attack schools, buses, and other civil targets full of children. And what about Iraq gassing the Kurdish like they say "good day" or everything Iran does - and everything Iran does that we don't know (which is much worse)?


don't you think that we do this because of what your leaders did to us??Way to go, killing innocents for what others did. Would you like it if I get pissed at anything at random, then throw a nuke against just about anyone because I'm pissed off?



the fact is muslims kill more muslims than anyone on earthYeah, that too. I find it "funny" (in a non-enjoyable way) to see so many people getting killed in muslim countries. I guess when they don't have enough westerners to murder, they start killing their own people so they can satisfy their blood thirst.



at least we don't rape women like your scumbags in iraq-palstineWith muslim traditions, treating women like property, forcing them to cover, denying them from all human rights, let alone additional civil and political rights, using sheets with holes so you don't have to touch all of them, even prohibiting them to study or read books, as well as the muslim law about having women raped for about anything they did or even didn't do, and many more things, every woman in your countries is raped every day.


and no i'm not a shia i'm a sunni following the prophet muhammedThen be careful, that bearded guy in Iran will kill you as soon as he can, nevermind you're muslim.


shia's are loaded up with crap go ahead and kill them if you don't we willROFL, what!? If you are trolling, you are the best troll I've ever seen. If you are not... How good we live far away. I'm actually sorry for you, in a way.



I live in a muslim country myself and all the muslim people here are great. Especially the royal family. They're open minded and very friendly.Then careful, that guy over there will want to have you killed.


I'm Chinese and we're considered 2nd class but does the Sultan and his family cares?Oh? How generous of them, they don't care! In most of the non-muslim countries, you are a 1st class citizen regardless of if you are European, Chinese, or Australian. As long as you have the citizenship, you must have the same rights and value as everyone else.


Does the Quran says that you have to conquer and destroy the world?Actually, the koran says what KingX11 said about taxes, and can also be quoted in a dozen places where it explains how are them to kill or torture infidels.


I wholeheartedly agree that a man like Saddam does not deserve power though. Why I mention him? He is practically evil nothing more than that other than evil.Agreed, though I'm not happy with the war on Irak. Saddam only killed his people. A despicable act, but now shiites want to kill both muslims, and not muslims, inside and outside Irak. The war only brought trouble and death, and gave Irak to Iran, the ugliest and deadliest of all muslim countries.



Oops, running out of time and need to get back to work, will read the rest later.

zer0kage
09-20-2006, 07:28 AM
Then careful, that guy over there will want to have you killed.


Lol yeah that is what you call a weed of society and religious groups. :D

Regarding their women policy... there are people who handle it well and those who don't. Some Muslims are being conservative while some are extreme to the point it's bad.

However I still think women have the right to choose their lifestyles. They can choose to wear all that bulky clothing yet receive education and such. I don't see how wearing that bulk of clothing is treating them like property unless it's forced. That is the only qualm I have from thet sentence. :D I mean it's a traditional dress.

However there are really really bad men out there who will force it. Of course those men must be stopped.

Regarding my country's Sultan. Well to the class thing it's practically the elderly, less educated locals who think of us Chinese that way. The more educated Malays and the royal family accept us as rightful citizens. No worries.

Starkadder
09-20-2006, 07:43 AM
Agreed, though I'm not happy with the war on Irak. Saddam only killed his people. A despicable act, but now shiites want to kill both muslims, and not muslims, inside and outside Irak. The war only brought trouble and death, and gave Irak to Iran, the ugliest and deadliest of all muslim countries.


Not quite accurate. We seem to be forgetting the two wars that Saddam started. The Iran-Iraq war was a war of aggression started by Saddam for complete control of the Shatt al Arab waterway. This was an eight year war with Iran fighting back the Iraqi mechanized invaders with human waves of soldiers. Not to mention Iraqi chemical gas attacks on Iranian military units and Iranian villages and towns. Then you have the invasion of Kuwait, so you have Kuwaiti military force losses, not to mention all the Kuwaiti civilians, especially the women that were taken back to Iraq and have not been seen again. Also you have the Iraqi missiles attacks against Israel too. Really tired of people continually downplaying the atrocities of Saddam, his cronies, and the Baath party.


that's right i think

islam is not inforce you is to tell about islam and how good is it

if you like your welcome if you don't there's the choices you have to choose from

so it's left or right nothing in between


we won't bother u ever if you didn't ((i can't remmber we did actually unless someone else started it ))

we'll trade with you and visit you sometimes like good nighbours and that's how europe survive 800 years ago the choosed the geizia and lived until they got stronger and the muslims leards weakend that when they invaded them and since then we all know what happend to islam and the other religions

I have sat here and read your posts over and over again. Looking for salient points in your incoherent writings. Guessing that your main point is that Islam is good, and all non-Islam is bad. Go ahead and live in your garden with your rose colored glasses.


Lol yeah that is what you call a weed of society and religious groups. :D

Regarding their women policy... there are people who handle it well and those who don't. Some Muslims are being conservative while some are extreme to the point it's bad.

However I still think women have the right to choose their lifestyles. They can choose to wear all that bulky clothing yet receive education and such. I don't see how wearing that bulk of clothing is treating them like property unless it's forced. That is the only qualm I have from thet sentence. :D I mean it's a traditional dress.

However there are really really bad men out there who will force it. Of course those men must be stopped.

Regarding my country's Sultan. Well to the class thing it's practically the elderly, less educated locals who think of us Chinese that way. The more educated Malays and the royal family accept us as rightful citizens. No worries.

It is not a free choice in most of the Islamic nations, whether enforced by national or religious law, and by local religious groups. Women can be beaten or punished for a variety of reasons, for rules that do not apply to men. Women have to be escorted every where they go when they leave the house, and are not allowed to talk or associate with men. To top it off, non-Islamic women workers are treated like prisoners, along with being forced sexual slaves, to their employers and his minions.

kingx11
09-20-2006, 10:03 AM
mrwiseman

i don't think you'r wise anymore

i though it would come from someone else but it came from you


how sad

anyway i won't go on about this it's going nowhere and i'm happy to know the real reasnobale people and the low minded ones whom i can't descues anything with them

Crys
09-20-2006, 10:14 AM
While making threats against Christians and bombing their churches in return is not?

Sure it is, but it's basically what the world has come to expect from the whole of their religious culture.

Aside from that, the new Pope DOES kinda suck. Good ol' J.P. II might be rolling in his grave right about now, although, truthfully, in his younger years, he might've said the SAME THING given the current state of world affairs.

chompy
09-20-2006, 10:22 AM
"You f*cked the middle east and gave birth to a demon" and now it has grown and planted seeds. This is plain to see even from a pacifist Muslim point of view.

Rational Muslim friends of mine (and some of the irrational ones) share my opinion that, although their tactics are off (killing innocent/uninvolved people is NEVER justified nomatter what the cause) in this battle, the terrorist Jihadi "Radicals" of the Muslim side have a more noble cause, one that i can guarantee I'd sympathise with were I placed in their situation - if anyone invaded where I live and I could either take up arms or risk the passing chance my family could be hurt and do nothing, I'd be "radicalised" in an instant.

Here's a parable you weaboo motherf*ckers :p can perhaps understand (it has the word zen so it's Japanese)

A Zen master was out on a walk with one of his students when they saw a fox chasing a rabbit. The student said the rabbit was doomed because "the fox is faster". "The rabbit will elude him," said the master. "How are you so sure?" asked the student. "Because the fox is running for his dinner and the rabbit is running for his life," said the master.

noooooooob
09-20-2006, 01:54 PM
the fox should press the red button: no rabbit=no problems :p

Hayeate
09-20-2006, 03:32 PM
A Zen master was out on a walk with one of his students when they saw a fox chasing a rabbit. The student said the rabbit was doomed because "the fox is faster". "The rabbit will elude him," said the master. "How are you so sure?" asked the student. "Because the fox is running for his dinner and the rabbit is running for his life," said the master.

I knew it. Chompy is a furry!


the terrorist Jihadi "Radicals" of the Muslim side have a more noble cause
A noble cause indeed, just like fascism :p.

Skorzeny
09-20-2006, 06:55 PM
noble cause. yeah right, I doubt you would think that if you became one of their random victims.

Fusilier
09-20-2006, 07:09 PM
mrwiseman

i don't think you'r wise anymore

i though it would come from someone else but it came from you


how sad

anyway i won't go on about this it's going nowhere and i'm happy to know the real reasnobale people and the low minded ones whom i can't descues anything with them

So basically you've just lost the arguement and went for a personal attack? Weaksauce.

kingx11
09-20-2006, 07:54 PM
^^^^^^^^
that's what we need a teenager

Hassoon
09-20-2006, 08:22 PM
Funny thats what i think when you post.

besieger
09-20-2006, 09:06 PM
Funny thats what i think when you post.

You're not so far off either. With your warlike tendency, your kind will lead Canada into a war which it cannot recover from.

As for chompy's comment, I do share the his notions that the Radicals do have a better cause to begin with. What's the point of resurrecting a "country" that died out since the Persian Empire? Really. It makes no sense. The people should have just been assimilated into the society already, and quit whining. To expel foreigners from your land, although is really radical and xenophobic, seems to be a much better cause. If not, why the hell did groups like Vietcong succeed?

MrWiseman
09-21-2006, 06:13 AM
I don't see how wearing that bulk of clothing is treating them like property unless it's forced.Islamic women clothing is like fat black svastikas turned 45

Starkadder
09-21-2006, 06:57 AM
"You f*cked the middle east and gave birth to a demon" and now it has grown and planted seeds. This is plain to see even from a pacifist Muslim point of view.

Rational Muslim friends of mine (and some of the irrational ones) share my opinion that, although their tactics are off (killing innocent/uninvolved people is NEVER justified nomatter what the cause) in this battle, the terrorist Jihadi "Radicals" of the Muslim side have a more noble cause, one that i can guarantee I'd sympathise with were I placed in their situation - if anyone invaded where I live and I could either take up arms or risk the passing chance my family could be hurt and do nothing, I'd be "radicalised" in an instant.

Here's a parable you weaboo motherf*ckers :p can perhaps understand (it has the word zen so it's Japanese)

A Zen master was out on a walk with one of his students when they saw a fox chasing a rabbit. The student said the rabbit was doomed because "the fox is faster". "The rabbit will elude him," said the master. "How are you so sure?" asked the student. "Because the fox is running for his dinner and the rabbit is running for his life," said the master.

Yes, foul language surely lends nobility and truth to your argument.

This demon you talk about was not caused recently, but one could say it went back to the crusades and to the forcible conversion of Saharan Africa to Islam. Surely also, the imperialistic colonial campaigns of Europe didn

besieger
09-21-2006, 09:51 PM
You assume too much, starkadder. Maybe one of these days you'll assume less and know what are my views on the FIRST NATIONS before open your mouth?

I'm actually in total support for the First Nations' cause of reclaiming lands that were theirs to begin with, and with them lost in a struggle with which they had no hope to win, it was just bad to see them dying out. The lands here in British Columbia should really had much of it return to them for them to continue to live off the land.

The Israelis, on the other hand, do not deserve such sympathy. They were decisively defeated many ages ago. They should have already be assimilated into the other countries already. They were scattered throughout the world, which would make their situation completely different, as they no longer live on their original land, and thus different from the First Nations and the Vietcong in the sense that they were still living in their land but had them occupied. Honestly, once you left, you should have just shut up and live with the other people already. But NO. The British had to do something "nice" and try to give their "land" back.

kingx11
09-22-2006, 02:49 AM
But NO. The British had to do something "nice" and try to give their "land" back.

from what i know the british did somthing nice to themselves and the whole EUROPE by getting the israely's out and throw them the ME since they didn't have a home land as they acclaim

so the idea was not bother the arab countries or fullfill the jews dreams it was just to get rid of those people because to be honest nothing good came out of them


and i'm takin' a long shot here but adolf hitler himself wanted europe clean from the jews that's why he did what he did to them and cleaned germany out of them

for some people this is hitler's reason why he hated all the countries around because they had jews among them


i read that somewhere i'm not totally agreeing with it

Drakron
09-22-2006, 03:21 AM
Sorry but lets not go over "the Reich that will last 1000 years" ... its a long story and I assure you, the jews were not going to be the only ones that would be wiped out ... the eslavic would suffer the same fate (and there was extensive etnic cleaning as a prove of that).

And yes, Israel is indid the last of european colonialism but it started after WW I not after WW II ... in fact it started even before WW I with the Ottoman empire allowing jewish settlements in the palestine.

noooooooob
09-22-2006, 05:03 AM
You assume too much, starkadder. Maybe one of these days you'll assume less and know what are my views on the FIRST NATIONS before open your mouth?

I'm actually in total support for the First Nations' cause of reclaiming lands that were theirs to begin with, and with them lost in a struggle with which they had no hope to win, it was just bad to see them dying out. The lands here in British Columbia should really had much of it return to them for them to continue to live off the land.

The Israelis, on the other hand, do not deserve such sympathy. They were decisively defeated many ages ago. They should have already be assimilated into the other countries already. They were scattered throughout the world, which would make their situation completely different, as they no longer live on their original land, and thus different from the First Nations and the Vietcong in the sense that they were still living in their land but had them occupied. Honestly, once you left, you should have just shut up and live with the other people already. But NO. The British had to do something "nice" and try to give their "land" back.


the palestinians can as easily go to jordan and syriya (like more than 50% of their "brothers" who left to the surrounding arab countries during the israeli independence war) and assimilate there according to your post. so why dont they FO from israel?

Crovax
09-22-2006, 07:44 AM
imo, the pope made an undiplomatic statement that was understandably taken as an insult. But then again, the indignated reaction was not quite in proportion to the pope's remarks, especially the perseverance of some to continue making trouble after the pope made a proper apology.

But then again, it does not seem like this thread is still dealing with the title topic, is it?

Crovax
09-22-2006, 08:30 AM
the palestinians can as easily go to jordan and syriya (like more than 50% of their "brothers" who left to the surrounding arab countries during the israeli independence war) and assimilate there according to your post. so why dont they FO from israel?

Why should they "FO" from Israel? A lot of the 'Arab' people in Israel hold the Israeli nationality or work there and keep the Israeli economy going. In spite of their own government discriminating against them and treating them as second rate citizens based solely on their religion and ethnicity.

The real problem is the territories occupied by Israel. Israel is breaking international law all over the place, there are about 20-30 UN-resolutions they are violating. There is understandably very little love lost between them and Amnesty International as well, considering some of their 'policies' with regards to prisoners, the occupation and retribution for suicide attacks.

Also, to say the British wanted to give the Israelis a little present isn't entirely true either. It is true that they are responsible for the mess that brew in the region before 1948 but when they realized their mistake they tried to do something about it, though one might challenge their conviction in this attempt. They tried to stop the influx of Jewish refugees but the Jewish people fought the British, at first they mounted terrorist attacks against the British and eventually they were in command of an army. An army, one might add, that was superior in number and experience to the army of the palestinians and other Arab nations that was in the region. The Israelis had military superiority from the very start. The Brits unable to control the mess they had allowed to develop handed over the problem to the UN. The UN decided to give 55% of the land to the Israelis. It is no wonder that this was unacceptable to the Palestinians, considering that the status quo at that moment was that the Palestinians had like 80% of the land and two thirds of the people living in the area was Palestinian, only a third was Jewish/Israeli. In that light I find the UN's division of the area into such incomprehensible parts one of its greatest failings ever. Anyhow, there were a bunch of wars afterwards, since the UN's ruling was rejected. The Israelis eventually drove back the Palestinians as well as forces from neighbouring countries which had fought for the Palestinian cause. A treaty/truce was signed in 1967 with new borders, in excess even of the borders suggested by the UN. Anyhow, legally that should still be the situation, but as we all know, it's not. A lot of the Palestinian territories are occupied by Israeli military forces and aerial strikes on Palestinian targets are still a reality of daily life.

All the surrounding neighbours of Israel have signed a treaty that they will accept return to the 1967 borders, and will recognize Israel. Yes, even Iran will officially recognize Israel, should Israel obey international law on this one issue. Even Hamas has said that a long-term truce would be possible were this to happen. Israel however, refuses.

No matter how you look at it, Israel's agenda is territorial expansionism, with the way it is building a circle of settlements around East-Jerusalem as a buffer, whilst the whole international community (as well as the law) maintains that East-Jerusalem, the territories occupied by the Israelis and 90% of the territory occupied by the wall they built as their idea of a new border, is part of the Palestinian state, not the Israeli.


But then again, I might be wrong. I am just a simple physics student after all.


P.S. noooooob claims that the former Palestinians living in Syria and other surrounding countries 'left' during the war. Most of the West agree that these people are something called 'refugees' and that they were refused entry back into their own country at the end of the war.

Starkadder
09-22-2006, 02:14 PM
You assume too much, starkadder. Maybe one of these days you'll assume less and know what are my views on the FIRST NATIONS before open your mouth?

I'm actually in total support for the First Nations' cause of reclaiming lands that were theirs to begin with, and with them lost in a struggle with which they had no hope to win, it was just bad to see them dying out. The lands here in British Columbia should really had much of it return to them for them to continue to live off the land.

The Israelis, on the other hand, do not deserve such sympathy. They were decisively defeated many ages ago. They should have already be assimilated into the other countries already. They were scattered throughout the world, which would make their situation completely different, as they no longer live on their original land, and thus different from the First Nations and the Vietcong in the sense that they were still living in their land but had them occupied. Honestly, once you left, you should have just shut up and live with the other people already. But NO. The British had to do something "nice" and try to give their "land" back.

To be totally honest, the only first nation we all can claim is Africa. Everywhere else supposedly we moved to.

I simply disagreed about your blanket statement of assimilation, though of course, you disagreed with me comparing the Israelis to the Native American Indians and the European Jews.

This of course really is a nowhere argument, since we have to live in today

Hayeate
09-24-2006, 04:54 PM
Somebody here mentioned Israel breaking UN resolution parameters during the Lebanon conflict. I won't argue with that, because shelling Israeli cities with thousands of Syrian supplied rockets is perfectly legal and acceptable from a humanitarian perspective.
However we all saw with what efficiency and decisive action had the UN handled situations in Rwanda and Darfur.
Therefore I really do burst into laughter, whenever I hear someone truly believing UN protocol to be international law.
So far, the UN has only managed to prevent a few conflicts from involving larger sides (ex. when the Soviet Union still existed) but I think that there's no arguing that it's overall efficiency in resolving them so far is highly questionable.

In fact, there already existed a very similar establishment failing to fulfill the purpose it was created for, that went by the name League of Nations. I fear that the UN is only a repeat of it.

Fuchsin
09-25-2006, 02:55 PM
I was appalled, though not entirely shocked, by the Pope's comments. They were rude and disrespectful. Just because he doesn't follow their religion/ doesn't like or understand it, gives him no right whatsoever to say those things. My mother said she wanted to kill him, but my mother...*sigh*...she's a whole new thread topic in herself.

Bubblemonkey
09-25-2006, 03:04 PM
Lord...I don't even see why he has to apologize any more than he already has. Even if he does feel that way about Islam (which I'm not saying he does...that statement was totally taken out of context and blown waaaay out of proportion), why the f**k should any of the muslims care? He's an old man who likely won't live past the end of the decade whose opinion won't really have any real effect on how people feel about Islam. To all the Muslims making a stink about it and the media who still think this crap is still newsworthy...GET OVER IT!...

kingx11
09-25-2006, 03:05 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^
it's deeper than an old man talkin' stupidly about a religion

Starkadder
09-25-2006, 09:27 PM
I like how it is okay to bash Catholics and Christians over their various unpopular moralities and the human fumblings of their clergy, but say one ill word about Islam, and you are sentenced to death.

Fuchsin
09-25-2006, 10:01 PM
I like how it is okay to bash Catholics and Christians over their various unpopular moralities and the human fumblings of their clergy, but say one ill word about Islam, and you are sentenced to death.

You have a point there, and I totally agree. It is very unfair, but typical. Just like how a black person can offend a white person, and not be racist, but if you reverse that situation, the white person is racist. Pathetic.

noooooooob
09-26-2006, 01:26 AM
well, atleast the muslims around the world (not all) showed their real face :P thumbs up for the pope :)

Hassoon
09-26-2006, 01:33 AM
The popes an idiot but that being said the reaction is ten times worse. Sort of what you expect when you poke the monkeys thru their cage at the zoo.

npdcb
09-26-2006, 02:02 AM
when a political person makes a controversial statement, he prefers to say that it was badly interpreted instead of apologizing himself publicly
it is not too much to ask...

MrWiseman
09-26-2006, 06:30 AM
Somebody here mentioned Israel breaking UN resolution parameters during the Lebanon conflict. I won't argue with that, because shelling Israeli cities with thousands of Syrian supplied rockets is perfectly legal and acceptable from a humanitarian perspective.Lol, can't rep you again this soon, but this would deserve it.

Yes, in fact to some NGOs and these humanitarian, modern, feelgood people who show unconditional sympathy to muslims (out of fear, ignorance, idiocy, or a combination of such), it seems so.

noooooooob
09-26-2006, 07:12 AM
fear, nah, i would call it terror. only a though of loosing their precious barrels of oil make them obey like zombies :p