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  • [Other] Modding Club Rules and Releasing/Submitting mods

    Rules when releasing/submitting a mod
    The HF modders have agreed to enforce two rules to ensure that we show proper respect for other people's work. These two rules are simple to follow because they are about common sense and showing respect for other people's work.

    Background
    The two rules have been made to make room for as many as possible at HF and not to push anybody away. Some people couldn't care less and some people think rules are important and it's obvious that we need rules in print to prevent further misunderstandings. Using the rep-system as a sanction against other contributors is not recommended. Neg-repping is no small thing and it should be used with care, so that we do not alienate each other. The last thing we want to do, is scare off inexperienced contributors, simply because their contribution wasn't "properly" contributed.

    THE RULES
    Nobody wants complex rules, but we've found that a minimum is required for us to maintain a thriving community. Therefore you must observe these two simple rules when posting a mod at HongFire:

    RULE #1: Release/submit mods responsibly
    A mod posted in a mod release thread must be tested and there must be a description of how to install it.
    Note: You are not required to test or provide any help if you post the mod in a discussion thread.

    What you must do
    You must provide a description on how to install the mod. This help can be as little as just making the mod Wizzard ready because there is general help available on how to use the Wizzard. Direct support via PM is not required, but encouraged.

    What should you do if you see a mod posted breaking RULE #1:
    Try to contact the author and give him at least 7 days to fix it. It's alright to give negative reputation if time is up. Consider reporting an unsupported and not working mod (by using the Report Post button ), so that it can be moved to the mod discussion or deleted.

    What happens to you if you break RULE #1:
    You risk getting negative reputation. An unsupported and not working mod might be reported so that it can be moved to the mod discussion or deleted.

    RULE #2: Credit the original author(s)
    If you post a mod where one or more of the following is true:
    • You're releasing a mod based on one or more other modder's work, like a retexturing of a dress, an uncensor using a mesh created by a modder for another game
    • You're releasing a mod using one or more other modder's work, like using an uncensor with your dress/body mod
    • You're releasing a tool or utility based on another tool made by another modder, maybe using source code from another tool made by a modder
    • You're releasing a mod compilation, such as a hair pack (involving .lst editing, testing) or a patch installing several mods (like the HF patch)
    • You're submitting a mod/tool that you post unmodified.
    • You're submitting a mod/tool that you have tested, made screenshots, translated/rewritten readme, uploaded to mirrors etc.


    What you must do
    • You must credit the author(s) of the mod. This is a requirement to ensure that proper respect is shown for the work that was provided free of charge.
    • If the modder specifically wishes to remain anonymous you should write that it is the explicit wish of the modder.
    • If you can't find the modder's name (i.e. it's not the same as the modder explicitly wanting to be anonymous) you must provide a source, i.e. a link to where you found the mod.
    • If it is not possible to provide the source (either because you don't have it, or if you positively know that disclosing it would damage the original modder) you must write something like:
      • "Source not provided because I don't recall where I found it - let me know and I will edit this post"
      • "Source not provided because the author has limited bandwidth/he doesn't want a direct link posted/other reason, but I have it. PM me if you want it".


    What should you do if you see a mod posted breaking RULE #2:
    Try to contact the author and give him at least 7 days to fix it. It's alright to give negative reputation if time is up. If the poster has not corrected or responded within 7 days, you should report the post by using the Report Post button ), so that it can be edited or deleted. Moderation is efficient in this section of HF and there is no excuse for not using the system.

    What happens to you if you break RULE #2:
    You risk getting negative reputation. A moderator may delete it, infraction you (repeated offense probably), edit your release post to include source/author or whatever the moderator will deem the best for the community.


    A Perverted Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy of Modding by bdpq (general guidelines considering copyright)
    Last edited by TheShadow; 05-01-2014, 12:51 PM. Reason: Fix THE which was TEH

  • Originally posted by enimaroah View Post
    ...
    @Inqusitor: It's good to see you convinced that crediting has a higher priority than you thought at first.
    I pursued and created this thread because I realized that settling the crediting issue has the highest priority. I had just hoped that we could make do with more or less a guideline about showing proper respect. I see that we can't and I'm even tempted to go even further than TheShadow, but what i have in mind I will keep to myself for now.

    Originally posted by enimaroah View Post
    ...
    @TheShadow: before you presented your version of the rules Inquisitor included some points about resposibility and support based on suggestions from several people here:
    • If you post the mod in a mod release thread you must have test the mod to ensure that it works. ...
    • Because the mod is now yours you should be prepared to provide support if users have issues with it.

    You haven't included these points in your version. Shouldn't it be part of the rules?
    I will compile a proposed rules draft incorporating some or all of TheShadow's suggestion in the first post. I'd still like more opinions about TheShadow's significantly more strict rules, so that I can get an idea if it's something that we can reach a consensus about.

    Comment


    • HF's forums make it difficult for proper moderation. Each mod release post should be its own thread (similar to the downloads section) so that the relevant discussion is in the same place (providing source if missing, broken links, support for that particular mod, etc). Following that, there should be a sub-forum per game that contains its mod release threads.

      Originally posted by Guff View Post
      Capt Jam, it is very simple if you want to post something.

      If you make something from scratch, no credit is required.
      If you use an existing mod to create something, credit should be given to one of these - modder/author/submitter/source/site taken from/etc.
      I basically agree with this. Credit should be given if you use someone else's work unless there is a good reason why credit shouldn't be given (like if the author doesn't want to be linked to it on HF). So, I disagree with what counts as "yours" in Inquisitor's draft.

      From TheShadow's draft:
      • Golden Internet Rules: Once you upload your mod into the internet, anyone would be able to use it without your permission.
        Agree, but as a warning, not a HF-Modding rule.
      • Note: You must include your copyright (txt file, header, text inside application, Hex String, any other) to claim your work if used without credit
        Disagree. Watermarking helps a lot with proving a mod is yours, but it isn't necessary. Something like showing you posted it in another forum before the repost is enough.
      • Those Rules will be applied on all mods starting from 8-Aug-2013
        Agree. The new rules shouldn't be retroactive. They'll start being enforced whenever the rules are officially set.
      • Note: Naming the original author(s) is a way to show respect of the work that made your mod possible, as you don't like you work to be shared by someone else name, do the same thing.
        Agree. Enforcement would be handled by neg-rep.
      • If you don't know the original author name you should write "All credit goes to the original modder"
        Agree.
      • If you can't find the modder's name you must provide a source. If it is not possible to provide the source (either because you don't have it or it would damage the original modder) you must write why the source is not included, like "source not provided because of bandwidth issues, PM me if you want it".
        Agree with needing to provide sources. Disagree with needing to give the reason. We'll assume you were lazy, so giving a reason would be better but not required.
      • You are not allowed to share a mod which has been specifically prohibited from distribution (this information will be in txt files in the archive).
        Agree.
      • If you post the mod in a mod release thread you must have test the mod to ensure that it works. However it is perfectly alright to post an untested mod in a discussion thread.
        Agree. This includes reposting unmodified mods.
      • You should be prepared to provide support if users have issues with it.
        Agree for "support" only meaning a working mod (not updates or improvements). Reposters can't be expected to provide support for someone else's work, and mod authors don't have to provide updates.


      HF Patch : It's presenting the HongFire forum modding section, It has the right to use any shared mod in the forum. If you don't accept your mod to be included in the HF Patch, then please find any other forum where you can share your work.
      Disagree. Mods aren't automatically fair game for the HF Patch if posted. Though mods that are yours can be included without your permission unless you explicitly say you don't want your mod being used. You can also request your mod to be removed from collections if it's used.

      It's highly recommended that you include a copyright in order to claim it if someone else use it without your permission or haven't include your name in the author list in readme file
      Note: Asking for permission policy will be applied only if it's mention in the readme file (which should be included with the mod) permission is required in order to modify it and use it
      Agree. Explicit permissions should be respected.

      Sanctions for breaking Rules
      If the contributor "forgot" to credit other authors you should contact him by PM and let him know. If no action was taken within (30 days) of the mod release, he/she can report that to the Modding Team, mean while other HF users may deduct from your Reputation (aka. neg-rep) if you release modified mods and forget to name the original author (or even worse: If you claim that all of it is your own work).
      Make it 7 days. A month is pretty long.

      I can also help with editing the draft later on.
      Last edited by Alamar; 08-09-2013, 11:31 AM.

      Comment


      • You should be prepared to provide support if users have issues with it.
        Agree only if it's not a repost of someone's else mod. It still must be a working mod. The reposter can't be expected to provide support for someone else's work.
        not agree with it, for several reasons
        example how can i help people when i use windows 7 and the other uses linux or that apple thing
        every computer is diffrent, when i tested the mods on my computer and with my version of game, dont says it will work on others, every games isnt installed at the same way!
        how many times we help, and the only question is "i cant get it work" are we wizzards? or we dont get any respons back!
        we not all have big computer knowlegde, most are modders (playing with games) not computer nerds

        like to change it in the best way to help, but no garantee or something like that

        For your own safety, don't use Windows 10
        Google is your best friend, Microsoft your worst enemy

        Comment


        • mk2000, if you can't help a user - you can't help. The requirement is only that you are available - not that you can solve his/her problem!

          It would be great for us all if you would help us make rules that make sense to everybody!

          Originally posted by Alamar View Post
          ...
          I can also help with editing the draft later on.
          Thanks for sharing your opinion, Alamar! You have great authority being the author of SB3U and ofc also a leader of the mod club. It is important for us to have veterans like you participating in this discussion.

          Reading your responses I see that we're almost on the same level. My first draft was clearly not good enough regarding the need for proper credit. I will compile a new draft in the next few days, but I'd still like more people to share their view on the two proposals.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by enimaroah View Post
            @TheShadow: before you presented your version of the rules Inquisitor included some points about resposibility and support based on suggestions from several people here:
            • If you post the mod in a mod release thread you must have test the mod to ensure that it works. ...
            • Because the mod is now yours you should be prepared to provide support if users have issues with it.

            You haven't included these points in your version. Shouldn't it be part of the rules?
            i have nothing in particular against any specific rule.. but you can say they are many and i tried to limit them so i just forget them

            Anyway, as i have mention before, those where the points which we faced in the past ! if i found anything new, i would include them later on... right now a little bit busy with Eid, RegFixer and changing my website domain

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mk2000 View Post
              not agree with it, for several reasons
              example how can i help people when i use windows 7 and the other uses linux or that apple thing
              every computer is diffrent, when i tested the mods on my computer and with my version of game, dont says it will work on others, every games isnt installed at the same way!
              how many times we help, and the only question is "i cant get it work" are we wizzards? or we dont get any respons back!
              we not all have big computer knowlegde, most are modders (playing with games) not computer nerds

              like to change it in the best way to help, but no garantee or something like that

              The majority of the time, an issue with a mod has nothing to do with the user's computer system or OS, and everything to do with them failing at following the directions provided, or not understanding what is required to achieve the expected results.
              This is why offering support for what you post is important. If there's no .txt file for installation, then you should expect to be queried for assistance if they ask for it. It could go along way towards them hanging around HF or even getting hit by the modding bug.
              If their issue is outside of the game or mod's framework, then politely tell them so, and you're commitment is done.
              It is not your responsibility to ensure that their game is installed correctly, and if in their replies you detect that their installation will not support the mod as it is presented, then tell them.
              I would say to take it one step further and direct them towards links that would provide support for their issue, but you are not required to do so.

              For the most part, I can usually link people to posts that contain tutorials for almost every issue they have had with anything I've posted.
              Last edited by Guff; 08-09-2013, 04:58 PM. Reason: additional
              PPD & Studio Pro Items
              PPD & Studio Pro Tutorials, Tips, & Outfit Mods

              Comment


              • I have edited the first post to include TheShadow's proposal, moderated by what Alamar and other's posted. Let us know what you think, so that Alamar do the final edit and put it in the general mod club information thread.

                Comment


                • Sounds reasonable to me.

                  All the points discussed before are covered and clarified.

                  One more thing, a readme should be included within every mod's archive. Sometimes, there's no readme and it may be a pain (not for modders, of course, but for lambda users) to find back the post with the installation instructions. And it also gives a track of who made what, so it's easier when you have to give credits.
                  Last edited by totaldecay78; 08-13-2013, 11:46 AM. Reason: Crappy spelling.
                  エッチな先生 - HF-Modding/Translation Club Member - To Infinity! ... And beyond!
                  My mods

                  Comment


                  • Thanks for your work on the new draft, Inquisitor.

                    How should the "seven days" and reporting be lived? Reporting at first sight or reporting after seven days? The wording sounds different for rule #1 and rule #2, but I guess the handling should be the same.

                    @totaldecay78: A readme is a good way to take care of the history and other useful information, no doubt. But you wouldn't want a working mod deleted just because of a missing readme, would you? It is like with the templates. We should make a collection of hints, a sheet of "good practices" as a helper if someone has no idea how to layout a mod.

                    Comment


                    • Sure, i did not say it must be mandatory, it's more a good practice as you said. That's why i wrote "a readme should be included within every mod's archive". =)
                      エッチな先生 - HF-Modding/Translation Club Member - To Infinity! ... And beyond!
                      My mods

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by totaldecay78 View Post
                        Sounds reasonable to me.

                        All the points discussed before are covered and clarified.

                        One more thing, a readme should be included within every mod's archive. Sometimes, there's no readme and it may be a pain (not for modders, of course, but for lambda users) to find back the post with the installation instructions. And it also gives a track of who made what, so it's easier when you have to give credits.

                        If I include a text file, it will have instructions on how to apply/install the mod, which is all that is necessary, but it will never have my name or a link to HF.
                        If I merely post an item in a release thread, it won't have a text file, unless there is a special case where something needs to be explained further than simply adding the .xx file into the game.
                        If assistance is requested for any of them, I will point the user to any number of posts containing the info they need.
                        This is not being lazy, this is by design.
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                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by enimaroah View Post
                          Thanks for your work on the new draft, Inquisitor.

                          How should the "seven days" and reporting be lived? Reporting at first sight or reporting after seven days? The wording sounds different for rule #1 and rule #2, but I guess the handling should be the same.
                          ...
                          The intention of the rules is to give the contributor reasonable doubt and time to fix his error before you start dishing out neg-rep or report him. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I'll leave it.to the final editor to clarify that important point.

                          Comment


                          • Thread locked. Let me know via PM if you think it should be reopened.

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