Howard G Spinks Dec 12th '06 05:49am Hello I received the following complaint and there is a lot of reading to do but I believe that having seen the content of your forum and some of the depraved comments that obviously it is time for you to moderate the forum to avoid a likely revocation of license. Your comments are appreciated and a discussion is important to ensure you have a fair chance to respond or act appropriately. Regards Howard G Spinks Jelsoft Licensing & Anti Piracy Agent www.piratereports.com ******************************************** Complaint QUOTE The loli genre of anime itself is illegal. On July 27 2006, a bill called HR 4472 was signed by President Bush. This law makes loli illegal in the USA and is punishable just as real child porn. Here is information on this bill: http://icreport.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR04472: Some hentai (pornographic anime drawings) websites are smart enough to recognize this bill and have banned loli from their websites. Here is the loli gallery: http://www.hongfire.com/cg/showgallery.php/cat/21 Here is the HF-Loli club: http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=138 There is also quite a bit of loli torrents in the torrent sections. http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=101 HongFire.com Dec 12th '06 04:25pm We've already did our research and make sure that loli is legal under US laws. If you look at our old annoucements this issue has already been discussed. Our lawyers already read thru all the law documents and make sure that Loli is legal before we allow it. ----- Original Message ----- From: ################# To: ############### Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: vBulletin Issue - Complint [SID-552088-f52a98db] > Hello > > I received the following complaint and there is a lot of reading to do but > I believe that having seen the content of your forum and some of the > depraved comments that obviously it is time for you to moderate the forum > to avoid a likely revocation of license. > > Your comments are appreciated and a discussion is important to ensure you > have a fair chance to respond or act appropriately. > > Regards > > Howard G Spinks > Jelsoft Licensing & Anti Piracy Agent > > www.piratereports.com > > ******************************************** > > Complaint QUOTE > > The loli genre of anime itself is illegal. On July 27 2006, a bill called > HR 4472 was signed by President Bush. This law makes loli illegal in the > USA and is punishable just as real child porn. Here is information on this > bill: > > http://icreport.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR04472: > > Some hentai (pornographic anime drawings) websites are smart enough to > recognize this bill and have banned loli from their websites. > > Here is the loli gallery: > http://www.hongfire.com/cg/showgallery.php/cat/21 > Here is the HF-Loli club: > http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=138 > > There is also quite a bit of loli torrents in the torrent sections. > http://www.hongfire.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=101 > > ------------------------------------------ > > This email has been sent to you via the vBulletin online ticket system. To > view the message online (and post followups), please visit this secure > address: > ################# > > If you would like to post a followup (or reply) to this message by email, > please email ################# being sure to include this text in the > subject: > [SID-552088-f52a98db] > Howard G Spinks Dec 13th '06 11:17am Thanks for your response and I will do some more research myself. I anticipate that the AUP for the software will not condone child sex even if it is animated and the discussion topics are to my mind in many circumstances depraved. It's not my decisions but I should prepare to make a choice of deleting the child abuse or using other software. I anticipate you will have less than 48 hours to make any dleteions or transition so backup your database now to be safe and ready. Regards Howard G Spinks Jelsoft Licensing & Anti Piracy Agent www.piratereports.com Howard G Spinks Dec 13th '06 03:44pm Hello Despite your Lawyer's opinion we do not consider child abuse be it animated, fictitious or otherwise to be an appropriate association with the Jelsoft Brand. Please either remove all sexually orientated lolli posts and graphics or your license willl be revoked under the Acceptable Use Policy and your network asked to delete the whole forum. Regards Howard G Spinks Jelsoft Licensing & Anti Piracy Agent www.piratereports.com HongFire.com Dec 13th '06 10:55pm Please show me the AUP I did not see anything in the AUP when i purchese this software. And There is nothing wrong with Anime sex is already accepted by LAW. AGAIN we had our Laywers checked all the LAWs before we allowing it. Child sex = no no. But Anime = ok. Have you notice there are about thousands websites that has LOLI and using VB. Probly the one that REPORTED us are using vb and allowing LOLI as well. We getting reports mainly becoz our site is growing bigger than our rivials. Please Show me the AUP. And also get your lawyers to check US laws. And let me know if there is anything I can do to solve this issue. Again I repeat I do not allow or condone any child abuse. We are a animation website. And to the best of your knowledge the site is hosting any "child sex" or "child abuse" type content, if you have found otherwise please send me the URLs so that we can remove the content. Please note that we are a site where users upload content, like youtube etc. We remove any child sex on sight and report them to FBI.com HongFire ----- Original Message ----- From: ################# To: ################# Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:17 AM Subject: Re: [SID-552088-f52a98db] Complint - vBulletin Issue > Thanks for your response and I will do some more research myself. > > I anticipate that the AUP for the software will not condone child sex even > if it is animated and the discussion topics are to my mind in many > circumstances depraved. > > It's not my decisions but I should prepare to make a choice of deleting > the child abuse or using other software. > > I anticipate you will have less than 48 hours to make any dleteions or > transition so backup your database now to be safe and ready. > > Regards > > Howard G Spinks > Jelsoft Licensing & Anti Piracy Agent > > www.piratereports.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > If you would like to post a followup (or reply) to your query via email, > please email ################# being sure to include this text in the > subject: > [SID-552088-f52a98db] > > To view your query online, please visit this address: > ################# > HongFire.com Dec 14th '06 01:47am More legal issue about loli for you to read http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42579 IT took us a very long time to get Lawyers and did many research. Offical website or Child Protection program. http://www.asacp.org/faq.php It would seem unfair if you force me to remove loli section when it's legal. Also many DVD company are making loli anime dvds and selling them in the US. If lolis are illegal there is no way they can do that. I am not a loli fan myself but I respect free speech. I already contacted the Webhost and they are willing to speak with your manager is it's a must del. Because they also want to know why VB is forcing us to remove something that is legal. Specially in the gallery we are not even using VB's software. Please help me solve this issue. Thank you for you help. Howard G Spinks Dec 18th '06 10:10am Hello This matter arose because of a complaint and whilst the gallery is not vB there are posts in the forum relating to child sex and you have a poll on incest which like it or not is illegal in the US and UK. The gallery is a forum plugin. I believe that if a picture or post stimulates perverted thoughts or behaviour then if it realtes to children it should be removed. What adults do in the privacy of their own space is up to them but the Internet is not private space even if the forum is by membership. There is actually a new law being discussed relating to cartoons in the UK NOW. If you are seeking compromise then this is the best I can offer. The removal of all sexual and perverse content such as http://www.hongfire.com/cg/data/28/soramizu.gif and http://www.hongfire.com/cg/data/28/NudityLevel_Hentai_Eye_Brown_Hair_Brown_Contains_Preg_CRC16_C5D7_CRC32_52DCCA19_.gif There is plenty and if it is too much of a task then please export your database to a different software. Regards Howard G Spinks Jelsoft Licensing & Anti Piracy Agent www.piratereports.com HongFire.com Dec 19th '06 07:28pm Hi New law being discussed meaning it's not approved yet. Also our server is located in the US so it's illegal to force a US server to follow UK laws. I've talked the webhost again and the fact is there is no real child being abused. Animation = Animation. Believe me If loli is illegal I would delete them all but I respect free speech since it's legal. I've asked few staff to research the law docs again. Here is what I found it seems loli is legal in UK as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#Legal_status_in_the_United_Kingdom http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/FSCView.asp?coid=271 I am not a fan of loli but it's part of the Japanese anime and also it's legal that's why I am trying to solve this problem with you without deleting them. We are having a hard time runing the site since it's a free service for anime fans. So please don't force us to close it down unless the US law says loli is illegal. In fact there are many US DVD company that are making uncensored loli DVDs and selling in the US which can also prove that loli are legal in the US. Please keep in mind it's illegal to force US server/citizen to follow UK laws. Please let me know if you need more law informations. Howard G Spinks Dec 21st '06 02:18pm Hello The matter is not up for debate as you can either remove the morally devoid items as requested, or take your activities to another software. You have had time to act as requested and I am having your license revoked under the Jelsoft Acceptable Use Policy and continued use of the software will be illegal and will result in your forum being deleted by your network. I assure you that my 35 years in law enforcement have not been wasted as you appear to be insinuating. Regards Howard G Spinks Jelsoft Licensing & Anti Piracy Agent www.piratereports.com HongFire.com Dec 22nd '06 12:08pm Ok. So if we remove the request link will you allow us to bring the site back? HongFire.com Dec 22nd '06 04:52pm what I didn't understand is. You are trying to enforce a law that doesn't exist. Law says animed art is ok. as long as there is no real child being abused. I will remove the request link could you enable my license again please? Steve Machol Dec 22nd '06 06:20pm If you want to have ANY chance at all of resolving this then you better stop inciting people to spam our support forums and support system. This is your ONLY warning. Steve Machol Customer Support Manager, vBulletin vBulletin Home Page http://www.vbulletin.com/ vBulletin Community Forums http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/